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	<title>Comments on: Ukraine roundup</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/ukraine/ukraine-roundup/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:40:35 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Michael S</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/ukraine/ukraine-roundup/#comment-5985</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Nov 2004 08:21:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>We keep getting so many conflicting signals! Sometimes we hear about demonstrations in the cities in the East; then we hear about how they are resolutely in the Yanukovych camp. 

Those aren't conflicting. Fraud or not, large majorities in the east voted for Yanukovich. One of the reasons is that the opposition was portrayed as a kind of fascist nationalist movement bankrolled by the US in order to steer Ukraine away from brotherly Russia. A lot of people bought it, and it has created a reserve of hostility that can easily be exploited (which is in constrast to the remarkably positive attitude of Yushchenko supporters.) 

Neither side has a massive grass-roots movement in the east of the country. Authorities are providing incentives for pro-Yanukovich rallies. Some folks, mainly college-educated liberals and students,  demostrate for the opposition. Latest rallies were in the low thousands in Crimean cities, in the low tens of thousands in Kharkiv (Ukraine's center of higher education), and in the low tens in the proletarian Donetsk (where you're likely to get beat up for wearing orange out on the street.) 

All power structures in the two halves of the country seem to follow the party line so far, including even Kharkiv educational authorities. 26 colleges in the city have jointly called their students not to engage in civil disobedience. There are two recent reports from Kharkiv on Maidan (in Russian) from students who say that their school administrators are using threats of punishment to discourage even pro-opposition activism. 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We keep getting so many conflicting signals! Sometimes we hear about demonstrations in the cities in the East; then we hear about how they are resolutely in the Yanukovych camp. </p>
<p>Those aren&#8217;t conflicting. Fraud or not, large majorities in the east voted for Yanukovich. One of the reasons is that the opposition was portrayed as a kind of fascist nationalist movement bankrolled by the US in order to steer Ukraine away from brotherly Russia. A lot of people bought it, and it has created a reserve of hostility that can easily be exploited (which is in constrast to the remarkably positive attitude of Yushchenko supporters.) </p>
<p>Neither side has a massive grass-roots movement in the east of the country. Authorities are providing incentives for pro-Yanukovich rallies. Some folks, mainly college-educated liberals and students,  demostrate for the opposition. Latest rallies were in the low thousands in Crimean cities, in the low tens of thousands in Kharkiv (Ukraine&#8217;s center of higher education), and in the low tens in the proletarian Donetsk (where you&#8217;re likely to get beat up for wearing orange out on the street.) </p>
<p>All power structures in the two halves of the country seem to follow the party line so far, including even Kharkiv educational authorities. 26 colleges in the city have jointly called their students not to engage in civil disobedience. There are two recent reports from Kharkiv on Maidan (in Russian) from students who say that their school administrators are using threats of punishment to discourage even pro-opposition activism.</p>
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		<title>By: Ken</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/ukraine/ukraine-roundup/#comment-5984</link>
		<dc:creator>Ken</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Nov 2004 06:03:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=978#comment-5984</guid>
		<description>One thing I saw that was exercising Putin's mind was the fact Yushchenko was thinking of entering into an economic union with Belarus and Kazakhstan. If this was the case, presumably Putin is fearful about watching yet more countries slip increasingly out of the Russian sphere of influence. I imagine it is leaning from the Kremlin that was behind the recognitions of Yanukovych from the countries mentioned today.

We keep getting so many conflicting signals! Sometimes we hear about demonstrations in the cities in the East; then we hear about how they are resolutely in the Yanukovych camp. Today the signals from within the country are good - the suspension of results by the Supreme Court - but on the realpolitik scale, Russia's strident support is really worrying. Putin evidently thinks he can test the EU/US resolve on this.

The British delegate to oversee the elections said the most common trick he saw was invisible ink being used in the ballot rooms. There are so many stories coming out about corruption that this result is not going to stand. A second vote may happen, but the way things are appearing to me, this will be decided by the people, and how far Yushchenko can get the people on his side.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One thing I saw that was exercising Putin&#8217;s mind was the fact Yushchenko was thinking of entering into an economic union with Belarus and Kazakhstan. If this was the case, presumably Putin is fearful about watching yet more countries slip increasingly out of the Russian sphere of influence. I imagine it is leaning from the Kremlin that was behind the recognitions of Yanukovych from the countries mentioned today.</p>
<p>We keep getting so many conflicting signals! Sometimes we hear about demonstrations in the cities in the East; then we hear about how they are resolutely in the Yanukovych camp. Today the signals from within the country are good - the suspension of results by the Supreme Court - but on the realpolitik scale, Russia&#8217;s strident support is really worrying. Putin evidently thinks he can test the EU/US resolve on this.</p>
<p>The British delegate to oversee the elections said the most common trick he saw was invisible ink being used in the ballot rooms. There are so many stories coming out about corruption that this result is not going to stand. A second vote may happen, but the way things are appearing to me, this will be decided by the people, and how far Yushchenko can get the people on his side.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy McDonald</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/ukraine/ukraine-roundup/#comment-5983</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy McDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Nov 2004 02:33:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=978#comment-5983</guid>
		<description>If (say) Crimea and the Donetsk Basin became Russian in 1991-1992, then without a doubt Yushchenko would have won.

Talking about redrawing borders, though, is very premature. So far, there's enough Ukrainian identity to go around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If (say) Crimea and the Donetsk Basin became Russian in 1991-1992, then without a doubt Yushchenko would have won.</p>
<p>Talking about redrawing borders, though, is very premature. So far, there&#8217;s enough Ukrainian identity to go around.</p>
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		<title>By: Eric Anondson</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/ukraine/ukraine-roundup/#comment-5982</link>
		<dc:creator>Eric Anondson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Nov 2004 00:26:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=978#comment-5982</guid>
		<description>I typed this in an older posting moments ago, I'm just reposting it here.

I?m not fully up to speed on the internal demographics of the Ukraine, but wasn?t there a redrawing of the borders of Soviet republics that was done to diminish the ethnic concentration of the various regions? For instance, the ethnically Russian region of the Crimea was drawn to be included into the Unkraine. When the USSR crumbled, they just kept the republics as drawn under the Soviet era.

I wonder how the election would have changed if regions like Crimea were returned to Russia.

Feasible? A good idea in any case?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I typed this in an older posting moments ago, I&#8217;m just reposting it here.</p>
<p>I?m not fully up to speed on the internal demographics of the Ukraine, but wasn?t there a redrawing of the borders of Soviet republics that was done to diminish the ethnic concentration of the various regions? For instance, the ethnically Russian region of the Crimea was drawn to be included into the Unkraine. When the USSR crumbled, they just kept the republics as drawn under the Soviet era.</p>
<p>I wonder how the election would have changed if regions like Crimea were returned to Russia.</p>
<p>Feasible? A good idea in any case?</p>
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		<title>By: jamie</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/ukraine/ukraine-roundup/#comment-5981</link>
		<dc:creator>jamie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Nov 2004 23:21:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Given various reports about who the troops support, this might be handy:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/ukraine/index.html

It's the Ukranian order of battle, with various details about which forces are where. There isn't an eastern operational command, btw, just western northern and southern ones.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Given various reports about who the troops support, this might be handy:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/ukraine/index.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/ukraine/index.html</a></p>
<p>It&#8217;s the Ukranian order of battle, with various details about which forces are where. There isn&#8217;t an eastern operational command, btw, just western northern and southern ones.</p>
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