Comments on: Powell speaks

By: DoDo

DoDo — Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:26:49 +0000

One last point regarding Powell: a low-key US approach would have been advisable also with a view at the at least 40% who did vote for Yanukovych, who fear American influence just as much as the other side Russian influence, if – as I’m certain we all do here on AFOE – one hopes they will accept the other side’s victory in the end.

By: DoDo

DoDo — Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:22:17 +0000

Regarding Putin, let’s remember that he threw out OSCE from Kosovo when they got uneasy, and that a few days ago he denounced OSCE for criticising the results of the elections before knowing the official result (despite his own recognition of Yanukovych’s victory a day earlier). He’s not a democrat whatever Schr?der says.

By: DoDo

DoDo — Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:18:51 +0000

James R MacLean, good points; I would add Iraq before France and Iran now for the USA too, while the Ivory Coast’s Gbago vs. France also belongs on the list (then again, I did follow the events there ever since the Guei coup).

By: DoDo

DoDo — Fri, 26 Nov 2004 20:15:01 +0000

Hektor, I support the Ukrainian Democrats, and I don’t think it helps them when American imperialists make their intentions so clear to that other imperialist, Russia’s Putin – and give him the impression that Yushchenko is really a Western mole he wouldn’t be able to deal with. I don’t think Powell’s speech swayed Ukrainian authorities a bit, while the effect on Putin is not one of backing down but pushing even harder. (Regarding to what Phil Hunt suggest, I don’t think a strong warning from Powell or our European leaders will have any sway on Putin.)

By: Hektor Bim

Hektor Bim — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 21:07:29 +0000

Marcello,

It’s about democracy, human rights, and the rule of law to me and to other liberals. So I support the American government when they support those things and I oppose then when they oppose them. You should do the same. Simple as that.

By: Marcello

Marcello — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 04:53:45 +0000

“It’s a little different, wanda, when there are huge protests against the government, widespread distrust of the electoral system, and an opposition leader unwilling to concede and willing to risk civil disobediance rather than concede.
Forget about hypocrisy. Defend democracy and human rights and the rule of law, here at home and abroad. It’s the same fight.”

Sorry, but this is not about democracy, human rights and much less about rule of law.Rather this is about about the future of russian empire as a world power.Quite frankly you do not have to be Brzezinski or Kissinger to see that where Ukraine is going to wind up, if with the West or with Russia, it is going to have a substantial impact on that.Even if at the moment there is a tactical alliance of sort between USA and Russia on a few issues (es:terrorism) it is obvious that in the long term a weak and divided russian empire would be preferable if the USA wants to mantain its current preeminence (a questionable foreign policy goal, but that is besides the scope of the discussion).At the very least it would be one power less to worry about.
Rest assured that Powell and Co are not going to lose sleep on the fairness of this election or the fate of the protesters in Kiev.The “right” outcome is all that matters to them.

By: James R MacLean

James R MacLean — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 04:16:07 +0000

Wanda, I understand your point of view, but Chancellor Schr?der has said much the same thing; so has the OSCE. A lot of times beleaguered heads of state will insist that all their problems are with a particular villified foreign power. Pres. Mugabe typically does this (as if 100% of his critics were citizens of the USA and the UK); so does the KCNA of North Korea (even to the extent of blaming Washington for a critical news story on North Korea appearing on Indian TV); US supporters of the late invasion of Iraq blamed France for everything, despite the fact that the great majority of sovereign governments opposed the invasion, not merely Paris.

The world is more complicated than that.

By: Phil Hunt

Phil Hunt — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 02:55:34 +0000

If Powell, Barroso and Solana are sensible they will also give Putin a strong warning not to intervene.

By: Hektor Bim

Hektor Bim — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 02:51:36 +0000

It’s a little different, wanda, when there are huge protests against the government, widespread distrust of the electoral system, and an opposition leader unwilling to concede and willing to risk civil disobediance rather than concede.

Forget about hypocrisy. Defend democracy and human rights and the rule of law, here at home and abroad. It’s the same fight.

By: wanda

wanda — Thu, 25 Nov 2004 02:43:41 +0000

I wonder how the powers that be would react to some asshole from another country saying that they did not accept the results of our elections? Is there little wonder that the majority of the citzens of the world think Americans are arrogant snobs?
Get over yourself alreayd Mr Powell. You are history.