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	<title>Comments on: Enter The People. Why We Are Wearing Orange.</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/enter-the-people-why-we-are-wearing-orange/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
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		<title>By: Tarik Amar</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/enter-the-people-why-we-are-wearing-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-6085</link>
		<dc:creator>Tarik Amar</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Dec 2004 23:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=996#comment-6085</guid>
		<description>Michael S. is right that in many respects Kyiv is rather a bilingual than a Russiophone city. Yet, in my personal experience, people in Kyiv are usually bilingual, but a majority still gives noticeable preference to Russian in public space, while switching effortlessly and without any other problems into Ukrainian if addressed in it. So, on this point, my formulation was right only in so far as it highlighted the - real and not unimportant - fact that the opposition has succeeded well in environments where Ukrainian is not dominant. That Yanukovych&#039;s language is scary in any language is not news, true, but maybe only for those whose Ukrainian and Russian is pretty good. So it seems sensible to state this perhaps trivial but outside Ukraine not well-known fact in an English-language publication. Michael S.&#039;s further point that the opposition has allegedly made a big mistake by somehow scaring Russiophone Ukrainian citizens further east is most likely mistaken: in those eastern regions of the country where such fears have been raised, it was the government&#039;s propaganda version of what the opposition allegedly stands for that created these fears. Consider simply who controlled the media there even more tightly than in central and western Ukraine (the only alternative to government-line tv, the 5th Channel, was switched off precisely in Donetsk and Dniepropetrovsk oblasts for most of the election campaign) and you will see that this interpretation makes more sense. 
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael S. is right that in many respects Kyiv is rather a bilingual than a Russiophone city. Yet, in my personal experience, people in Kyiv are usually bilingual, but a majority still gives noticeable preference to Russian in public space, while switching effortlessly and without any other problems into Ukrainian if addressed in it. So, on this point, my formulation was right only in so far as it highlighted the &#8211; real and not unimportant &#8211; fact that the opposition has succeeded well in environments where Ukrainian is not dominant. That Yanukovych&#8217;s language is scary in any language is not news, true, but maybe only for those whose Ukrainian and Russian is pretty good. So it seems sensible to state this perhaps trivial but outside Ukraine not well-known fact in an English-language publication. Michael S.&#8217;s further point that the opposition has allegedly made a big mistake by somehow scaring Russiophone Ukrainian citizens further east is most likely mistaken: in those eastern regions of the country where such fears have been raised, it was the government&#8217;s propaganda version of what the opposition allegedly stands for that created these fears. Consider simply who controlled the media there even more tightly than in central and western Ukraine (the only alternative to government-line tv, the 5th Channel, was switched off precisely in Donetsk and Dniepropetrovsk oblasts for most of the election campaign) and you will see that this interpretation makes more sense.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael S</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/enter-the-people-why-we-are-wearing-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-6084</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 2004 02:36:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=996#comment-6084</guid>
		<description>DoDo,

Yes, according to one report, personal finances got significantly better on Yanukovych&#039;s watch, at least in Donetsk (Yushchenko supporters believe that it was a result of their candidate&#039;s long-term policies.) The letter from Luhansk I mentioned is up on Maidan&#039;s English site. Things in Luhansk in general have not been going well today. 

Whatever else one can say about Western media, they have an unfortunate tendency to mass their foreign correpondents in capitals. It&#039;s nice to have sources like Maidan around.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DoDo,</p>
<p>Yes, according to one report, personal finances got significantly better on Yanukovych&#8217;s watch, at least in Donetsk (Yushchenko supporters believe that it was a result of their candidate&#8217;s long-term policies.) The letter from Luhansk I mentioned is up on Maidan&#8217;s English site. Things in Luhansk in general have not been going well today. </p>
<p>Whatever else one can say about Western media, they have an unfortunate tendency to mass their foreign correpondents in capitals. It&#8217;s nice to have sources like Maidan around.</p>
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		<title>By: DoDo</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/enter-the-people-why-we-are-wearing-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-6083</link>
		<dc:creator>DoDo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Nov 2004 02:11:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=996#comment-6083</guid>
		<description>Michael, I agree with what you say - except I believe economic fears are another, just as important issue for them. (Yet again, I wonder whether they forget that Yushchenko paid out workers when he became PM, or could it be that it escaped my attention that payouts weren&#039;t on time again later in his PM-ship.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, I agree with what you say &#8211; except I believe economic fears are another, just as important issue for them. (Yet again, I wonder whether they forget that Yushchenko paid out workers when he became PM, or could it be that it escaped my attention that payouts weren&#8217;t on time again later in his PM-ship.)</p>
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		<title>By: Michael S</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/enter-the-people-why-we-are-wearing-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-6082</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2004 23:43:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=996#comment-6082</guid>
		<description>DoDo,

That sounds plausible. But I think Yushchenko made himself unnecessarily vulnerable. He was taking a heavy beating from a negative ad compaign on Ukrainian TV, designed by Russian advisors (whose tactics are actually a legacy of the oligarch-sponsored Eltsin reelection.) In addition, since domestically produced programs in Russian have been banned from Ukrainian TV, many people were probably tuning in to Russian channels, whose journalistic standards are hitting lows unseen since the soviet days. I don&#039;t believe eastern Ukraine even has an agressively independent print press comparable to Russia&#039;s. For one reason or another, Yushchenko&#039;s grass-roots campaign didn&#039;t make a lot of inroads in the east. All the more reason not to lose his chances to hit back. It looks like the language question may be the top election issue for many if not most eastern voters. I&#039;ve looked over a semi-transcript of the pre-election televized debate (in which Yanukovych switched to Russian for closing statements), and the only related comment from Yushchenko I could find was his dismissal of the language question as &quot;populism&quot;. Sounds like a bad campaign move.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>DoDo,</p>
<p>That sounds plausible. But I think Yushchenko made himself unnecessarily vulnerable. He was taking a heavy beating from a negative ad compaign on Ukrainian TV, designed by Russian advisors (whose tactics are actually a legacy of the oligarch-sponsored Eltsin reelection.) In addition, since domestically produced programs in Russian have been banned from Ukrainian TV, many people were probably tuning in to Russian channels, whose journalistic standards are hitting lows unseen since the soviet days. I don&#8217;t believe eastern Ukraine even has an agressively independent print press comparable to Russia&#8217;s. For one reason or another, Yushchenko&#8217;s grass-roots campaign didn&#8217;t make a lot of inroads in the east. All the more reason not to lose his chances to hit back. It looks like the language question may be the top election issue for many if not most eastern voters. I&#8217;ve looked over a semi-transcript of the pre-election televized debate (in which Yanukovych switched to Russian for closing statements), and the only related comment from Yushchenko I could find was his dismissal of the language question as &#8220;populism&#8221;. Sounds like a bad campaign move.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/enter-the-people-why-we-are-wearing-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-6081</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2004 20:31:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=996#comment-6081</guid>
		<description>Today&#039;s Grauniad quotes a woman in Donetsk as saying that she &quot;didn&#039;t want to be a nuclear waste dump for the west&quot;. Does that suggest that the &#039;t othersiders have been putting this about?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Today&#8217;s Grauniad quotes a woman in Donetsk as saying that she &#8220;didn&#8217;t want to be a nuclear waste dump for the west&#8221;. Does that suggest that the &#8216;t othersiders have been putting this about?</p>
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		<title>By: DoDo</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/enter-the-people-why-we-are-wearing-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-6080</link>
		<dc:creator>DoDo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:07:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=996#comment-6080</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t share Tobias&#039;s and especially Nick&#039;s scepticism about the separatisms. (Nor the idea that this is just the oligarch&#039;s will. As there was a reported turnout of 150,000 at a pro-Yanukovych protest in Donetsk in the last few days, you can&#039;t deny popular support on the other side.) In Donetsk, there will be a plebiscite about autonomy on December 5. Since Crimea already has one, Yushchenko&#039;s threats go too far, and could inflame the situation.

It is easy for a separatist movement in Eastern Europe to gain momentum, happened many times. Unfortunately, many in the West will afterwards believe that what separated never belonged together.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t share Tobias&#8217;s and especially Nick&#8217;s scepticism about the separatisms. (Nor the idea that this is just the oligarch&#8217;s will. As there was a reported turnout of 150,000 at a pro-Yanukovych protest in Donetsk in the last few days, you can&#8217;t deny popular support on the other side.) In Donetsk, there will be a plebiscite about autonomy on December 5. Since Crimea already has one, Yushchenko&#8217;s threats go too far, and could inflame the situation.</p>
<p>It is easy for a separatist movement in Eastern Europe to gain momentum, happened many times. Unfortunately, many in the West will afterwards believe that what separated never belonged together.</p>
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		<title>By: DoDo</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/enter-the-people-why-we-are-wearing-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-6079</link>
		<dc:creator>DoDo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2004 19:00:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=996#comment-6079</guid>
		<description>Michael, interesting info! On the other hand, Neeka&#039;s blog mentions what Yushchenko told in some recent interview: the governing parties promise making Russian a second official language for some time now, but didn&#039;t deliver, while in his European role models it is normal to have 4-5 official languages [he must have meant Switzerland].</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Michael, interesting info! On the other hand, Neeka&#8217;s blog mentions what Yushchenko told in some recent interview: the governing parties promise making Russian a second official language for some time now, but didn&#8217;t deliver, while in his European role models it is normal to have 4-5 official languages [he must have meant Switzerland].</p>
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		<title>By: Michael S</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/enter-the-people-why-we-are-wearing-orange/comment-page-1/#comment-6078</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael S</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Nov 2004 15:46:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=996#comment-6078</guid>
		<description>Kiev is not so much a russophone as a bilingual city. That makes a big difference from eastern regions, where most city dwellers have only studied Ukrainian as a foreign language in school. 

It&#039;s also not a much of a news item that Yanukovych managed to scare some Russian speakers. There&#039;s no language on earth whose speakers he wouldn&#039;t scare. It&#039;s much more remarkable how Yushchenko&#039;s campaign let itself be turned into a handy scarecrow for the same constituency. Even its main slogans weren&#039;t tranlated. When people gather at pro-opposition rallies in strictly russophone cities, they can only make speeches in Russian, but their chants are all in Ukrainian. In a way, it&#039;s been remarkable to see Ukrainian make the transition (in Ukrainian-Russians&#039; eyes) from its traditional place of a bumpkin cousin of Russian to the language of civic courage, but from a political standpoint, I think it was a big tactical mistake.

There&#039;s a letter from Lugansk waiting in Maidan&#039;s translation pipeline that points this out from first-hand experience. A lot of people in the east were led to believe that a Yushchenko administration would make mastery of Ukrainian a prerequisitve for making a living.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kiev is not so much a russophone as a bilingual city. That makes a big difference from eastern regions, where most city dwellers have only studied Ukrainian as a foreign language in school. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s also not a much of a news item that Yanukovych managed to scare some Russian speakers. There&#8217;s no language on earth whose speakers he wouldn&#8217;t scare. It&#8217;s much more remarkable how Yushchenko&#8217;s campaign let itself be turned into a handy scarecrow for the same constituency. Even its main slogans weren&#8217;t tranlated. When people gather at pro-opposition rallies in strictly russophone cities, they can only make speeches in Russian, but their chants are all in Ukrainian. In a way, it&#8217;s been remarkable to see Ukrainian make the transition (in Ukrainian-Russians&#8217; eyes) from its traditional place of a bumpkin cousin of Russian to the language of civic courage, but from a political standpoint, I think it was a big tactical mistake.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s a letter from Lugansk waiting in Maidan&#8217;s translation pipeline that points this out from first-hand experience. A lot of people in the east were led to believe that a Yushchenko administration would make mastery of Ukrainian a prerequisitve for making a living.</p>
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