Re the limits of Europe - the EU already includes a part of South America. Vive la France!

Well, almost certainly the present members would balk well before that point. That definition might include really hot potatoes like Israel. So the question is not really answered.

In addition, how many of the proponents are using this to keep more independence?

On the EU side of things, see also:

http://fistfulofeuros.net/archives/000715.php

And on the very long arm of some EU law, see also:

http://fistfulofeuros.net/archives/000587.php

Pithily, I would say that Europe ends where people do not regard themselves as European. The Union will find its natural limits where states do not aspire to join.

Interestingly enough, Haider supports Turkey’s entry to the EU, on the grounds that it is “logical” and that, if rejected, Turkey might collapse into an “Islamic-fundamentalist” regime. Story (in German) is here. (via Ostracised)

well, the post wasn’t entirely in reply to your comment; but that did add an extra element to something I had hoped to write about anyway.

You raise a fair question. And my answer is, I don’t think it will have quite the cost on European party politics that you fear it will.

What I hope is that, over the decade or more I expect it to take Turkey to get itself into shape for accession, its progress will be such that nobody, CDU or otherwise, will have any rational objections left. (And, so long as there are significant rational objections remaining, Turkey shouldn’t accede.)

That is, I expect Turkish accession would remain a bugbear for NPD and their like; but that such objections that remained would not be those the CDU would be willing to use as a cudgel.

And I don’t think eventual Turkish accession would be quite the plum for NPD that you do. The anti feelings might run a bit stronger than in the case of the recent expansion to the east. The nazis barked about that one, too. Still, although there was some popular opposition to the expansion in the existing member states, the expansion doesn’t seem to have brought any significant rewards for the right-wing xenophobe extremists. The NPD’s showing in Brandenburg the other day is, I think, down to the continuing godawful economy in the new federal states, Hartz IV and other reforms, and the growing feeling among easterners that they are 2d class Germans. In other words, a purely internal dynamic; I doubt the NPD got many new voters because the slawische Untermenschen are now EU members.

I agree that the EU should not make Turkey a member simply because that would be good for Turkey. I think that, if Turkey can do what it needs to qualify for membership, Turkish accession would be good for the EU.

I would appreciate your view on the substance of my post: whether starting the process of admitting Turkey is still worthwhile even if this means a lot more votes for NPD, Le Pen, Haider and the like.

The situation is not unlike making an assessment of the value of Roe v. Wade in US politics. It’s not enough to defend R v. W on the grounds that you favour constitutional protections for legal abortion. The bigger question is, has it been worth the cost in US party politics, in particular the merger of the Republicans and a reinvigorated Christian right?

Similarly, the wisdom of admitting Turkey to the EU cannot be considered only the grounds of whether or not admitting Turkey would be good for Turkey, have economic benefits, etc. The bigger question is, is it worth the cost in European party politics?

Germany has itself absorbed more people of Turkish origin than anywhere else in the EU - around 2.5 million. Many of them live in the Kreuzberg district of Berlin. But while most Germans appreciate the Turkish presence here, the latest opinion poll suggests a majority against Turkish membership of the EU.

I quote this largely because Kreuzberg was where I stayed in Berlin, and very nice it was too.

Right, thats why it would be a step backward–the way I remember it I believe that Dadrian’s book was able to be published because of laws that were changed in the last two or so years, to have a revocation come so soon especially under this government in an issue without a socially religious aspect is what I find strange.

“My source was a report on a German news programme a couple of nights ago. (Google searches in English and German don’t turn up anything relevant.) I would be very pleased to learn the report was wrong.”

Given the amount of attention this penal code has gotten, the last thing I expect is for it to become more accessible to the public–but hopefully for that reason people will look into it further.