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	<title>Comments on: Kosovo: then what?</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/kosovo-then-what/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 02 Dec 2008 18:29:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Steven N</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/kosovo-then-what/#comment-18964</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven N</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 22 Feb 2008 23:37:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net//kosovo-then-what#comment-18964</guid>
		<description>The predictions could be made only if the history is evaluated. The only good thing happened after Second world war is European Union. Separation, territory dividing, establish a new country is the worst thing could happen in Europe today. This is step back. Unsuccesful politics like Tadic in Serb now making the wrong step. The war is knoking on the door.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The predictions could be made only if the history is evaluated. The only good thing happened after Second world war is European Union. Separation, territory dividing, establish a new country is the worst thing could happen in Europe today. This is step back. Unsuccesful politics like Tadic in Serb now making the wrong step. The war is knoking on the door.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Muir</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/kosovo-then-what/#comment-18463</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Muir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 20:32:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net//kosovo-then-what#comment-18463</guid>
		<description>Actually, while Haradinaj is a thug, he's a very intelligent thug who did indeed make some statesmanlike gestures during his brief time in office.

There's still some low-level violence, but not as much as there's been in the past.  Also, acquiring Serb property is probably not a major motive... most of the nicest properties (apartments, shops, farms) were taken in 1999-2000.  Also, it's much harder to just grab property now; if a Serb family leaves, they can sell it to the highest bidder.  That's changed from a few years ago, when a local Albanian clan might simply take over.

Also, don't neglect the economic aspect.  The Albanians could treat the Serbs south of the Ibar with perfect respect, and the Serbs would still be leaving.  Albanians are leaving Kosovo in droves, after all.


Doug M.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, while Haradinaj is a thug, he&#8217;s a very intelligent thug who did indeed make some statesmanlike gestures during his brief time in office.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s still some low-level violence, but not as much as there&#8217;s been in the past.  Also, acquiring Serb property is probably not a major motive&#8230; most of the nicest properties (apartments, shops, farms) were taken in 1999-2000.  Also, it&#8217;s much harder to just grab property now; if a Serb family leaves, they can sell it to the highest bidder.  That&#8217;s changed from a few years ago, when a local Albanian clan might simply take over.</p>
<p>Also, don&#8217;t neglect the economic aspect.  The Albanians could treat the Serbs south of the Ibar with perfect respect, and the Serbs would still be leaving.  Albanians are leaving Kosovo in droves, after all.</p>
<p>Doug M.</p>
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		<title>By: Wim Roffel</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/kosovo-then-what/#comment-18460</link>
		<dc:creator>Wim Roffel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 23 Jan 2008 15:48:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net//kosovo-then-what#comment-18460</guid>
		<description>I am very pessimistic about what will happen next. Albanians and Serbs have a long history of making life difficult for each other. Kosovo's Albanian leaders look to me more like thugs than statesmen who are able to make a grand gesture (try reading the Haradinaj indictment). And the low level violence (stone throwing, thefts, vandalism, etc.) is still going strong. I don't expect it to stop once independence is achieved: much of it is done by Albanians who aim to acquire Serb property cheaply or for nothing.

According to opinion polls by Kosovo's government 30% of the Serbs will leave if Kosovo becomes independent. That will probably involve the majority of those south of the Ibar. 

The Ahtisaari plan doesn't hardly mention any security improvements for Kosovo's Serbs: it talks only about autonomy. So the pressure on Kosovo's Serbs to leave will stay and the tension will stay. Many more will leave - making the autonomy hollow.

No Serb leader can afford to accept such ethnic cleansing on territory what according to international law still is theirs. 

My estimate: for many decades to come we will have a heightened risk for war in the Balkan. And that all because our diplomats couldn't think up anything better than that partial Ahtisaari plan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am very pessimistic about what will happen next. Albanians and Serbs have a long history of making life difficult for each other. Kosovo&#8217;s Albanian leaders look to me more like thugs than statesmen who are able to make a grand gesture (try reading the Haradinaj indictment). And the low level violence (stone throwing, thefts, vandalism, etc.) is still going strong. I don&#8217;t expect it to stop once independence is achieved: much of it is done by Albanians who aim to acquire Serb property cheaply or for nothing.</p>
<p>According to opinion polls by Kosovo&#8217;s government 30% of the Serbs will leave if Kosovo becomes independent. That will probably involve the majority of those south of the Ibar. </p>
<p>The Ahtisaari plan doesn&#8217;t hardly mention any security improvements for Kosovo&#8217;s Serbs: it talks only about autonomy. So the pressure on Kosovo&#8217;s Serbs to leave will stay and the tension will stay. Many more will leave - making the autonomy hollow.</p>
<p>No Serb leader can afford to accept such ethnic cleansing on territory what according to international law still is theirs. </p>
<p>My estimate: for many decades to come we will have a heightened risk for war in the Balkan. And that all because our diplomats couldn&#8217;t think up anything better than that partial Ahtisaari plan.</p>
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		<title>By: Cyrus</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/kosovo-then-what/#comment-18317</link>
		<dc:creator>Cyrus</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Nov 2007 03:19:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net//kosovo-then-what#comment-18317</guid>
		<description>As broad as "some sort of independence" is, there is also quite a bit of breadth in "some sort of recognition."  What seems the best likely situation is the Balkan Taiwan scenario.  Countries that wish to deal with Kosovo will recognize that there is a government in Pristina, establish relations that most won't call embassies, and negotiate agreement that most won't call treaties.

But I would be surprised to see many countries jumping on the bandwagon to recognize whatever territorial claim a self-declared government in Pristina might make, especially if it includes territory that government does not de facto control.  And if the government in Pristina pushes the issue, is not satisfied with being a Taiwan, I can see Kosovo becoming a Balkan Kashmir, a far less happy situation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As broad as &#8220;some sort of independence&#8221; is, there is also quite a bit of breadth in &#8220;some sort of recognition.&#8221;  What seems the best likely situation is the Balkan Taiwan scenario.  Countries that wish to deal with Kosovo will recognize that there is a government in Pristina, establish relations that most won&#8217;t call embassies, and negotiate agreement that most won&#8217;t call treaties.</p>
<p>But I would be surprised to see many countries jumping on the bandwagon to recognize whatever territorial claim a self-declared government in Pristina might make, especially if it includes territory that government does not de facto control.  And if the government in Pristina pushes the issue, is not satisfied with being a Taiwan, I can see Kosovo becoming a Balkan Kashmir, a far less happy situation.</p>
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		<title>By: mijawara</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/kosovo-then-what/#comment-18313</link>
		<dc:creator>mijawara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 16:12:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net//kosovo-then-what#comment-18313</guid>
		<description>Do I ever hope Paul is right . . . One of the worst unintended consequences of the UN protectorate is that no one ever meaningfully won: Albanians were not able to approach their new circumstances with magnanimity, and pursue reconciliation from a position of strength; and Serbs in Kosovo were never forced to acknowledge the new reality, and seek an accommodation within it that maximizes their voice.

If the choreography of status finalization in the next few months is executed deftly, we might be able to see the conflict start to thaw. But I'm not as confident as Doug that the hardliners on the Albanian side will exercise the restraint that's needed for that to happen.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Do I ever hope Paul is right . . . One of the worst unintended consequences of the UN protectorate is that no one ever meaningfully won: Albanians were not able to approach their new circumstances with magnanimity, and pursue reconciliation from a position of strength; and Serbs in Kosovo were never forced to acknowledge the new reality, and seek an accommodation within it that maximizes their voice.</p>
<p>If the choreography of status finalization in the next few months is executed deftly, we might be able to see the conflict start to thaw. But I&#8217;m not as confident as Doug that the hardliners on the Albanian side will exercise the restraint that&#8217;s needed for that to happen.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul Currion</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/kosovo-then-what/#comment-18312</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul Currion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Nov 2007 12:31:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net//kosovo-then-what#comment-18312</guid>
		<description>The partition will harden, but it's hard to see what anybody can do about it.  Serbia can legitimately keep supporting that area without the international community having grounds to oppose it, as long as they play it right, and a Pristina government would be forced either to ignore it or play for compromise.  Does anybody think any differently?

I wonder about the violence question in general.  I was shocked by the visceral hatred and the overt violence that permeated society in Kosovo immediately after the war.  Certainly this was partly due to the brutalisation of an already awkward society, but I now think it was also because the victors really weren't convinced that they'd won.  With independence, they will be convinced - and possibly feel that they don't have anything to prove any more.

Or possibly not.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The partition will harden, but it&#8217;s hard to see what anybody can do about it.  Serbia can legitimately keep supporting that area without the international community having grounds to oppose it, as long as they play it right, and a Pristina government would be forced either to ignore it or play for compromise.  Does anybody think any differently?</p>
<p>I wonder about the violence question in general.  I was shocked by the visceral hatred and the overt violence that permeated society in Kosovo immediately after the war.  Certainly this was partly due to the brutalisation of an already awkward society, but I now think it was also because the victors really weren&#8217;t convinced that they&#8217;d won.  With independence, they will be convinced - and possibly feel that they don&#8217;t have anything to prove any more.</p>
<p>Or possibly not.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug M.</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/kosovo-then-what/#comment-18309</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:27:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net//kosovo-then-what#comment-18309</guid>
		<description>Mijawara, I agree -- we'll see the de facto partition harden.  At some point something will have to be done about that.

I think violence against the Serbs in the south is less likely, though.  Not impossible, certainly, but not the way to bet.  They're a small minority now, and the Albanians are aware that they're under scrutiny.  


Doug M.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mijawara, I agree &#8212; we&#8217;ll see the de facto partition harden.  At some point something will have to be done about that.</p>
<p>I think violence against the Serbs in the south is less likely, though.  Not impossible, certainly, but not the way to bet.  They&#8217;re a small minority now, and the Albanians are aware that they&#8217;re under scrutiny.  </p>
<p>Doug M.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug M.</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/kosovo-then-what/#comment-18308</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 11:24:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net//kosovo-then-what#comment-18308</guid>
		<description>Hektor, I agree that Taiwan is overstating things; most of Kosovo's neighbors will recognize quickly, including Macedonia, Montenegro and (of course) Albania.

On the other hand, the "no" list would include Russia, China, Romania, Greece and (of course!) Serbia.  Also, a lot of non-European countries with minority issues -- Indonesia -- or who just aren't comfortable seeing a UN resolution ignored.


Doug M.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hektor, I agree that Taiwan is overstating things; most of Kosovo&#8217;s neighbors will recognize quickly, including Macedonia, Montenegro and (of course) Albania.</p>
<p>On the other hand, the &#8220;no&#8221; list would include Russia, China, Romania, Greece and (of course!) Serbia.  Also, a lot of non-European countries with minority issues &#8212; Indonesia &#8212; or who just aren&#8217;t comfortable seeing a UN resolution ignored.</p>
<p>Doug M.</p>
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		<title>By: mijawara</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/kosovo-then-what/#comment-18306</link>
		<dc:creator>mijawara</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Nov 2007 04:37:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net//kosovo-then-what#comment-18306</guid>
		<description>One element that's missing from the equation here is the power of Serbia's parallel institutions to harden the de facto partition of Kosovo in the north. Most of the international organizations are anticipating at least some limited violence across the Ibri / Ibar in Mitrovica, and to what extent that is utilized by hardliners further south as a pretext for pressuring Kosovo Serbs to leave is an important question mark.

The expulsion of Kosovo Serbs from the enclaves--whether by violence or by the creation of a political climate less compromising than the Ahtisaari-focused rhetoric from Pristina today--would be a boon to Belgrade, enabling Serbia to portray Kosovo's quasi-state as inimical to minority rights. If things blow up in Mitrovica, that becomes a much more likely endgame.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One element that&#8217;s missing from the equation here is the power of Serbia&#8217;s parallel institutions to harden the de facto partition of Kosovo in the north. Most of the international organizations are anticipating at least some limited violence across the Ibri / Ibar in Mitrovica, and to what extent that is utilized by hardliners further south as a pretext for pressuring Kosovo Serbs to leave is an important question mark.</p>
<p>The expulsion of Kosovo Serbs from the enclaves&#8211;whether by violence or by the creation of a political climate less compromising than the Ahtisaari-focused rhetoric from Pristina today&#8211;would be a boon to Belgrade, enabling Serbia to portray Kosovo&#8217;s quasi-state as inimical to minority rights. If things blow up in Mitrovica, that becomes a much more likely endgame.</p>
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		<title>By: Hektor Bim</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/kosovo-then-what/#comment-18305</link>
		<dc:creator>Hektor Bim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Nov 2007 18:49:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net//kosovo-then-what#comment-18305</guid>
		<description>A Balkan Taiwan is overstating things.  Kosovo will likely have relations with most of its neighbors and all the major western powers.  That's plenty good enough for them.  This isn't a few Caribbean and Pacific islands, like for Taiwan.

I agree Russia will do very little.  The only question is quite how crazy the Serbian government is willing to be - in general, the crazier they are, the more sympathy Kosovo will get and the worse it will be for them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A Balkan Taiwan is overstating things.  Kosovo will likely have relations with most of its neighbors and all the major western powers.  That&#8217;s plenty good enough for them.  This isn&#8217;t a few Caribbean and Pacific islands, like for Taiwan.</p>
<p>I agree Russia will do very little.  The only question is quite how crazy the Serbian government is willing to be - in general, the crazier they are, the more sympathy Kosovo will get and the worse it will be for them.</p>
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