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	<title>Comments on: A quiet Sunday in Yerevan</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:08:11 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Douglas Muir</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan/#comment-19183</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Muir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 16:15:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan#comment-19183</guid>
		<description>I would agree with Onnik.

I said LTP's support was drawn "disproportionately from the educated middle class".  Let me clarify that.  I saw three groups out there.

1)  Hardcore LTP supporters.  This was, as Onnik says, maybe 20% of the population.  It is a mixed group -- some young people who don't remember how bad things were under LTP in the 1990s, some older people who revere him as the Father Of The Country, some intellectuals who love him because he's an intellectual in action.  

2)  People who just hate the government and/or the way things are here.  I think these are the people who Onnik says he's photographed again and again.

3)  People who were particularly pissed about the way the government stole THIS election.

Not all these people were strong LTP supporters (though many were).  Some didn't vote for him or even like him much.  But he was what they had, I think.

Oh, and also (4) some hooligans and (5) some provocateurs.  Maybe a lot of (5), depending on who you talk to.


Doug M.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would agree with Onnik.</p>
<p>I said LTP&#8217;s support was drawn &#8220;disproportionately from the educated middle class&#8221;.  Let me clarify that.  I saw three groups out there.</p>
<p>1)  Hardcore LTP supporters.  This was, as Onnik says, maybe 20% of the population.  It is a mixed group &#8212; some young people who don&#8217;t remember how bad things were under LTP in the 1990s, some older people who revere him as the Father Of The Country, some intellectuals who love him because he&#8217;s an intellectual in action.  </p>
<p>2)  People who just hate the government and/or the way things are here.  I think these are the people who Onnik says he&#8217;s photographed again and again.</p>
<p>3)  People who were particularly pissed about the way the government stole THIS election.</p>
<p>Not all these people were strong LTP supporters (though many were).  Some didn&#8217;t vote for him or even like him much.  But he was what they had, I think.</p>
<p>Oh, and also (4) some hooligans and (5) some provocateurs.  Maybe a lot of (5), depending on who you talk to.</p>
<p>Doug M.</p>
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		<title>By: Global Voices Online &#187; Armenia: Eight Dead, State of Emergency Declared</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan/#comment-19178</link>
		<dc:creator>Global Voices Online &#187; Armenia: Eight Dead, State of Emergency Declared</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 05 Mar 2008 04:24:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan#comment-19178</guid>
		<description>[...] Patchwork posts photographs from the morning after a night of rioting while A Fistful of Euros paints the picture of the Armenian capital with soldiers on the streets. Yesterday morning, the government ran out of [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Patchwork posts photographs from the morning after a night of rioting while A Fistful of Euros paints the picture of the Armenian capital with soldiers on the streets. Yesterday morning, the government ran out of [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik Krikorian</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan/#comment-19167</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik Krikorian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:58:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan#comment-19167</guid>
		<description>Incidentally, although there is nothing to back this up, many of us feel as though Levon Ter-Petrossian had about 20 percent genuine support in society while Sargsyan had about 35.

The remainder was split among other candidates -- mainly Artur Baghdasarian and Vahan Hovannisian, with an unknown but probably significant number who sold their votes to the highest bidder, most likely the prime minister, Serge Sargsyan.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Incidentally, although there is nothing to back this up, many of us feel as though Levon Ter-Petrossian had about 20 percent genuine support in society while Sargsyan had about 35.</p>
<p>The remainder was split among other candidates &#8212; mainly Artur Baghdasarian and Vahan Hovannisian, with an unknown but probably significant number who sold their votes to the highest bidder, most likely the prime minister, Serge Sargsyan.</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik Krikorian</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan/#comment-19166</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik Krikorian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 15:55:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan#comment-19166</guid>
		<description>Fidel, a good point, but from my point of view it can't be said that Ter-Petrossian has middle-class support. Indeed, his rallies were mainly full of the downtrodden and people from the regions. Many of them, btw, I've photographed time and time again at opposition rallies lead by different figures since 2003. Basically, they're unhappy with the situation and will support anyone in opposition who speaks to them at the lowest common denominator -- i.e. hate.

However, there were more people from civil society and the middle class supporting Levon than usual, in part because he is considered a more educated, intellectual, academic and pro-Western figure than any of the other opposition alternatives who were running. However, that wasn't a huge number of people, but it was enough if you consider that for once they were also at rallies, and in the case of the media and civil society they utilized their own "administrative resources" in his support.

Nevertheless, for every educated, middle-class, progressive young Armenia who supported Levon, I know three or four that didn't. Anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fidel, a good point, but from my point of view it can&#8217;t be said that Ter-Petrossian has middle-class support. Indeed, his rallies were mainly full of the downtrodden and people from the regions. Many of them, btw, I&#8217;ve photographed time and time again at opposition rallies lead by different figures since 2003. Basically, they&#8217;re unhappy with the situation and will support anyone in opposition who speaks to them at the lowest common denominator &#8212; i.e. hate.</p>
<p>However, there were more people from civil society and the middle class supporting Levon than usual, in part because he is considered a more educated, intellectual, academic and pro-Western figure than any of the other opposition alternatives who were running. However, that wasn&#8217;t a huge number of people, but it was enough if you consider that for once they were also at rallies, and in the case of the media and civil society they utilized their own &#8220;administrative resources&#8221; in his support.</p>
<p>Nevertheless, for every educated, middle-class, progressive young Armenia who supported Levon, I know three or four that didn&#8217;t. Anyway.</p>
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		<title>By: Fidel Pardussi</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan/#comment-19165</link>
		<dc:creator>Fidel Pardussi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 04 Mar 2008 14:38:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan#comment-19165</guid>
		<description>Doug, please keep your head safe.

I just find it amazing how mostly the educated middle class people would have to protest in a society where by definition they are doing better than the people who did not vote for Ter-Petrosian. It would imply that people who are not doing so well are "to a degree" happy with the way things are going, and the people who are doing better are less happy.

The logic would be that if you're poor, uneducated... and the rest of the stereotypes then you have nothing to loose and you risk your safety to demand change.

I always found people who vote for the opposition to be more snobbish, sometimes bordering on racist, looking down on these "poor, uneducated, unsophisticated masses" that do not vote for "their candidate."

Doug, this is a general comment, not an attack on your article, just to clarify this matter.

Anyhow, if Armenia were close to joining, say, NATO like Macedonia is hoping to be then a few thousand protesters would be able to put real pressure on the government, sadly this is not the case. So, to keep your head safe I suggest to write something about the upcoming Macedonia name dispute crisis and the risk of missing on NATO membership because of the Greek veto.

What's your opinion? Will we have the "Republic of Upper Macedonia" (I hate this term "upper") or the "Republic of Macedonia-Skopje?

Best wishes,

Fidel</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug, please keep your head safe.</p>
<p>I just find it amazing how mostly the educated middle class people would have to protest in a society where by definition they are doing better than the people who did not vote for Ter-Petrosian. It would imply that people who are not doing so well are &#8220;to a degree&#8221; happy with the way things are going, and the people who are doing better are less happy.</p>
<p>The logic would be that if you&#8217;re poor, uneducated&#8230; and the rest of the stereotypes then you have nothing to loose and you risk your safety to demand change.</p>
<p>I always found people who vote for the opposition to be more snobbish, sometimes bordering on racist, looking down on these &#8220;poor, uneducated, unsophisticated masses&#8221; that do not vote for &#8220;their candidate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Doug, this is a general comment, not an attack on your article, just to clarify this matter.</p>
<p>Anyhow, if Armenia were close to joining, say, NATO like Macedonia is hoping to be then a few thousand protesters would be able to put real pressure on the government, sadly this is not the case. So, to keep your head safe I suggest to write something about the upcoming Macedonia name dispute crisis and the risk of missing on NATO membership because of the Greek veto.</p>
<p>What&#8217;s your opinion? Will we have the &#8220;Republic of Upper Macedonia&#8221; (I hate this term &#8220;upper&#8221;) or the &#8220;Republic of Macedonia-Skopje?</p>
<p>Best wishes,</p>
<p>Fidel</p>
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		<title>By: Armenia Election Monitor 2008 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Levon Ter-Petrossian Rally: 28 February 2008</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan/#comment-19122</link>
		<dc:creator>Armenia Election Monitor 2008 &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Levon Ter-Petrossian Rally: 28 February 2008</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 16:22:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan#comment-19122</guid>
		<description>[...] If anything, despite the crackdown, it is Ter-Petrossian that looks more democratic to the outside world than the incumbent authorities. However, as one foreign journalist remarked over coffee today, nobody is expecting anything other than Sargsyan becoming the next president. Even so, as both of us agreed, the situation still remains unpredictable despite the strange calm that has now descended on Yerevan. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] If anything, despite the crackdown, it is Ter-Petrossian that looks more democratic to the outside world than the incumbent authorities. However, as one foreign journalist remarked over coffee today, nobody is expecting anything other than Sargsyan becoming the next president. Even so, as both of us agreed, the situation still remains unpredictable despite the strange calm that has now descended on Yerevan. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Onnik Krikorian</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan/#comment-19120</link>
		<dc:creator>Onnik Krikorian</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 14:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan#comment-19120</guid>
		<description>Just to clarify, I was informed that the state of emergency by The Armenian Observer (http://ditord.wordpress.com) who in turn was told by the Legal expert at Internews in Yerevan.

Anyway, I think I've decided to continue blogging regardless, but of course, any information considered to incite unrest or insurrection or whatever risks actions from the authorities.

There's going to be a fine line to tread and I'm not sure how it will play out. I'm going to try anyway. Let's see what happens.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify, I was informed that the state of emergency by The Armenian Observer (http://ditord.wordpress.com) who in turn was told by the Legal expert at Internews in Yerevan.</p>
<p>Anyway, I think I&#8217;ve decided to continue blogging regardless, but of course, any information considered to incite unrest or insurrection or whatever risks actions from the authorities.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s going to be a fine line to tread and I&#8217;m not sure how it will play out. I&#8217;m going to try anyway. Let&#8217;s see what happens.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan/#comment-19119</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 14:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan#comment-19119</guid>
		<description>Does it seem like Ter-Petrosian's request that his supporters stand down was genuine, or forced?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does it seem like Ter-Petrosian&#8217;s request that his supporters stand down was genuine, or forced?</p>
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		<title>By: Guy La Roche</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan/#comment-19114</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy La Roche</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 11:57:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/transition-and-accession/a-quiet-sunday-in-yerevan#comment-19114</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the update, Douglas. And, please, take care.

I would like to mention that AFOE is currently (and finally) updating their blogroll. Readers interested in what is going on in Armenia right now should also check our blogroll under "Eastern Europe".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the update, Douglas. And, please, take care.</p>
<p>I would like to mention that AFOE is currently (and finally) updating their blogroll. Readers interested in what is going on in Armenia right now should also check our blogroll under &#8220;Eastern Europe&#8221;.</p>
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