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	<title>Comments on: The uses of soft power</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-uses-of-soft-power/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 03:22:17 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-uses-of-soft-power/#comment-6326</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 15:52:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1032#comment-6326</guid>
		<description>"Guys, seriously. Let's not kill each other so much in the future."

Yes, but where is the connection to a multipolar world?

PS: The text definitely says "cuddle-friend". In fact that's the tamest accurate translation. Unless Mr. Kagan speaks German the text itself will be a translation.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Guys, seriously. Let&#8217;s not kill each other so much in the future.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, but where is the connection to a multipolar world?</p>
<p>PS: The text definitely says &#8220;cuddle-friend&#8221;. In fact that&#8217;s the tamest accurate translation. Unless Mr. Kagan speaks German the text itself will be a translation.</p>
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		<title>By: Omada</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-uses-of-soft-power/#comment-6325</link>
		<dc:creator>Omada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 03:16:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1032#comment-6325</guid>
		<description>I sometimes have the feeling that Europeans want to create a multipolar world via the legal pipeline.

Is Kagan joking? Isn't this the (overwhelmingly large) main point of the EU? A post-WWII mainland Europe saying "Guys, seriously. Let's not kill each other so much in the future." (with a bit of "Dammit, the Americans had to save us again. This is intolerable.")

Addendum as I preview the post: "cuddle-friend"? He said that?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I sometimes have the feeling that Europeans want to create a multipolar world via the legal pipeline.</p>
<p>Is Kagan joking? Isn&#8217;t this the (overwhelmingly large) main point of the EU? A post-WWII mainland Europe saying &#8220;Guys, seriously. Let&#8217;s not kill each other so much in the future.&#8221; (with a bit of &#8220;Dammit, the Americans had to save us again. This is intolerable.&#8221;)</p>
<p>Addendum as I preview the post: &#8220;cuddle-friend&#8221;? He said that?</p>
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		<title>By: DoDo</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-uses-of-soft-power/#comment-6324</link>
		<dc:creator>DoDo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 03:00:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1032#comment-6324</guid>
		<description>Spiegel: Can it be that America got as far as the British Empire, shortly before its downfall?

Kagan: In 2050, Europeans will on average be at the end of their forties. Americans will be ten years younger. Usually that's not the demography of a nation in downfall.

Cohn-Bendit: You should tell your cuddle-friend Ms. Merkel that America wishes more immigrants, to hold up the downfall of New and Old Europe.

Spiegel: Mr. Cohn-Bendit, Mr. Kagan, we thank for this talk.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spiegel: Can it be that America got as far as the British Empire, shortly before its downfall?</p>
<p>Kagan: In 2050, Europeans will on average be at the end of their forties. Americans will be ten years younger. Usually that&#8217;s not the demography of a nation in downfall.</p>
<p>Cohn-Bendit: You should tell your cuddle-friend Ms. Merkel that America wishes more immigrants, to hold up the downfall of New and Old Europe.</p>
<p>Spiegel: Mr. Cohn-Bendit, Mr. Kagan, we thank for this talk.</p>
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		<title>By: DoDo</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-uses-of-soft-power/#comment-6323</link>
		<dc:creator>DoDo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 02:55:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1032#comment-6323</guid>
		<description>Cohn-Bendit: Europe is a magic car. It has two driving wheels, behind one sits Chirac, behind the other Schr?der, and behind them sit a lot of people, who debate in which direction the two should drive. Still I believe in the Vision Europe. Measured against the short a time the onetime Warshaw Pact countries are sovereign, we achieved qwuite something. This process is going on for longer than my generation's life, in the end it will be an alliance which shares responsibilities with America and other superregional alliances.

Spiegel: The americans seem to be isolated at the moment. Is US diplomacy failing?

Kagan: Without doubt the USA showed weaknesses in this process. But no one could foresee that the French will risk their vision of international order in a brand new way of kamikaze-diplomacy. According to a poll for the New York Times, 58% of Americans think that the UN is doing a bad job. That's 10% more than last month.

Cohn-Bendit: The Americans are isolated and isolate their allies because they act in an autistic way.

Spiegel: How will European-American relations develop after the Iraq crisis is over?

Kagan: Stuff that connect us - culture, democracy, liberal principles - will again gain importance. Of course Washington needs to show more sensibility in its dealings with Europe. Conversely, Europe must fit itself to the mentality of the superpower and spend less time with stemming itself against it. [Translator cracks up a third time.]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cohn-Bendit: Europe is a magic car. It has two driving wheels, behind one sits Chirac, behind the other Schr?der, and behind them sit a lot of people, who debate in which direction the two should drive. Still I believe in the Vision Europe. Measured against the short a time the onetime Warshaw Pact countries are sovereign, we achieved qwuite something. This process is going on for longer than my generation&#8217;s life, in the end it will be an alliance which shares responsibilities with America and other superregional alliances.</p>
<p>Spiegel: The americans seem to be isolated at the moment. Is US diplomacy failing?</p>
<p>Kagan: Without doubt the USA showed weaknesses in this process. But no one could foresee that the French will risk their vision of international order in a brand new way of kamikaze-diplomacy. According to a poll for the New York Times, 58% of Americans think that the UN is doing a bad job. That&#8217;s 10% more than last month.</p>
<p>Cohn-Bendit: The Americans are isolated and isolate their allies because they act in an autistic way.</p>
<p>Spiegel: How will European-American relations develop after the Iraq crisis is over?</p>
<p>Kagan: Stuff that connect us - culture, democracy, liberal principles - will again gain importance. Of course Washington needs to show more sensibility in its dealings with Europe. Conversely, Europe must fit itself to the mentality of the superpower and spend less time with stemming itself against it. [Translator cracks up a third time.]</p>
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		<title>By: DoDo</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-uses-of-soft-power/#comment-6322</link>
		<dc:creator>DoDo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 02:44:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1032#comment-6322</guid>
		<description>Spiegel: Is the deeper reason for the dissent that the USA still tries to expand its powers?

Kagan: Yes. To be precise this is our policy for 400 years, when we were a few small colonies attached to the Atlantic Coast.

Cohn-Bendit: For the better or worse?

Kagan: We rarely have that choice. We have to face reality. From the American viewpoint, the international order can only have one centre: the USa and not the UN Security Council.

Cohn-Bendit: With this ideology the USA could topple Allende, conduct the Vietnam War and commit many deadly errors.

Kagan. That's human. [the translator cracks up for half a minute at this.] If one has a nice big hammer, one suddenly sees nails everywhere. [[the translator cracks up for a second half minute, imagining himself into one of these myopia-made nails.] And sometimes one hits his own thumb. Unlike Europe, America knows what it wants. Europe must ask itself what it is today and what it wants to become someday.

Cohn-Bendit: That's exactly what we are doing at the moment. We are building Europe. In a multipolar world, we must take over more responsibilities: for security, conflict prevention, social justice and ecological responsibility. The United States of Europe.

Kagan: I don't know whether you noticed, but there is such a thing as differences in opinion between European states. Only when Europe has real power, will America adapt. I sometimes have the feeling that Europeans want to create a multipolar world via the legal pipeline.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Spiegel: Is the deeper reason for the dissent that the USA still tries to expand its powers?</p>
<p>Kagan: Yes. To be precise this is our policy for 400 years, when we were a few small colonies attached to the Atlantic Coast.</p>
<p>Cohn-Bendit: For the better or worse?</p>
<p>Kagan: We rarely have that choice. We have to face reality. From the American viewpoint, the international order can only have one centre: the USa and not the UN Security Council.</p>
<p>Cohn-Bendit: With this ideology the USA could topple Allende, conduct the Vietnam War and commit many deadly errors.</p>
<p>Kagan. That&#8217;s human. [the translator cracks up for half a minute at this.] If one has a nice big hammer, one suddenly sees nails everywhere. [[the translator cracks up for a second half minute, imagining himself into one of these myopia-made nails.] And sometimes one hits his own thumb. Unlike Europe, America knows what it wants. Europe must ask itself what it is today and what it wants to become someday.</p>
<p>Cohn-Bendit: That&#8217;s exactly what we are doing at the moment. We are building Europe. In a multipolar world, we must take over more responsibilities: for security, conflict prevention, social justice and ecological responsibility. The United States of Europe.</p>
<p>Kagan: I don&#8217;t know whether you noticed, but there is such a thing as differences in opinion between European states. Only when Europe has real power, will America adapt. I sometimes have the feeling that Europeans want to create a multipolar world via the legal pipeline.</p>
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		<title>By: DoDo</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-uses-of-soft-power/#comment-6321</link>
		<dc:creator>DoDo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 02:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1032#comment-6321</guid>
		<description>Kagan: Europe must learn to live with this reality, and it can do that cleverly or stupidly. However, in their dealings with the USA, one doesn't notice anything of the Europeans' skill in diplomacy. If you have the impression that Americans don't trust this international legal system, then you must make them it easier to befriend this stuff.

Cohn-Bendit: The big delusion in your 'clever politics' is to believe that a democratic government can maintain such a politics against its own people for long. Millions were on the streets against the war.

Kagan: I agree on this. Democracy kills diplomacy.

Cohn-bendit: Politicians can act against majorities only if they are convinced of the necessity. The German government had their country participate in the wars in Kosovo and Afghanistan because it was convinced that Germany must take over responsibilities, and not just pay responsibly. The USA must understand that the people here need time to understand what changes are necessary to take over responsibility.

Kagan: OK, then we are dealing with a classic tragedy. Both sides can't act differently, both sides feel they are completely right. America is famous for its self-righteousness, but it doesn't seem to be different here in Europe. This is not about the mutual shouting across the Atlantic about how immoral the others are or how weak and cowardy. I believe the break is real and important.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kagan: Europe must learn to live with this reality, and it can do that cleverly or stupidly. However, in their dealings with the USA, one doesn&#8217;t notice anything of the Europeans&#8217; skill in diplomacy. If you have the impression that Americans don&#8217;t trust this international legal system, then you must make them it easier to befriend this stuff.</p>
<p>Cohn-Bendit: The big delusion in your &#8216;clever politics&#8217; is to believe that a democratic government can maintain such a politics against its own people for long. Millions were on the streets against the war.</p>
<p>Kagan: I agree on this. Democracy kills diplomacy.</p>
<p>Cohn-bendit: Politicians can act against majorities only if they are convinced of the necessity. The German government had their country participate in the wars in Kosovo and Afghanistan because it was convinced that Germany must take over responsibilities, and not just pay responsibly. The USA must understand that the people here need time to understand what changes are necessary to take over responsibility.</p>
<p>Kagan: OK, then we are dealing with a classic tragedy. Both sides can&#8217;t act differently, both sides feel they are completely right. America is famous for its self-righteousness, but it doesn&#8217;t seem to be different here in Europe. This is not about the mutual shouting across the Atlantic about how immoral the others are or how weak and cowardy. I believe the break is real and important.</p>
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		<title>By: DoDo</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-uses-of-soft-power/#comment-6320</link>
		<dc:creator>DoDo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 02:18:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1032#comment-6320</guid>
		<description>Hmmm, Oliver, it degenerates into name-calling much later... I'll continue the piblic service for a while:

Kagan: What is it about this man [Saddam] that you get yourself all these problems, instead of going in and grabbing him?

Cohn-Bendit: Many civilians will die.

Kagan: Many did in Kosovo too.

Cohn-Bendit: The difference was that at the time, we faced an aggressive-expansive regime.

Kagan: Saddam Hussein invaded Iran and Kuweit, and killed Kurds in the North. That all is now over ten years ago - should we let him off the hook because of that?

Spiegel: Mr Kagan, do you believe that Europe now fears Bush more than Saddam?

Kagan: Europe has no fear of Saddam, and it can't understand America's fear either. The Europeans act as missionaries of a posthistorical-european world order, and they see the Americans as the greatest threat to this approach. Saddam may be a threat to other parts of the world, but no threat to the European vision. 

Cohn-Bendit: The threat to Europe is in the fact that the only thing left for us is to say Yes, Amen! to what the Americans want. The Europeans don't want that anymore. Think of Kyoto or the exceptional status of the USA at the International Criminal Court. Americans now seem to owe an account only to Americans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hmmm, Oliver, it degenerates into name-calling much later&#8230; I&#8217;ll continue the piblic service for a while:</p>
<p>Kagan: What is it about this man [Saddam] that you get yourself all these problems, instead of going in and grabbing him?</p>
<p>Cohn-Bendit: Many civilians will die.</p>
<p>Kagan: Many did in Kosovo too.</p>
<p>Cohn-Bendit: The difference was that at the time, we faced an aggressive-expansive regime.</p>
<p>Kagan: Saddam Hussein invaded Iran and Kuweit, and killed Kurds in the North. That all is now over ten years ago - should we let him off the hook because of that?</p>
<p>Spiegel: Mr Kagan, do you believe that Europe now fears Bush more than Saddam?</p>
<p>Kagan: Europe has no fear of Saddam, and it can&#8217;t understand America&#8217;s fear either. The Europeans act as missionaries of a posthistorical-european world order, and they see the Americans as the greatest threat to this approach. Saddam may be a threat to other parts of the world, but no threat to the European vision. </p>
<p>Cohn-Bendit: The threat to Europe is in the fact that the only thing left for us is to say Yes, Amen! to what the Americans want. The Europeans don&#8217;t want that anymore. Think of Kyoto or the exceptional status of the USA at the International Criminal Court. Americans now seem to owe an account only to Americans.</p>
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		<title>By: Omada</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-uses-of-soft-power/#comment-6319</link>
		<dc:creator>Omada</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 02:16:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1032#comment-6319</guid>
		<description>Cool. Thanks a lot Oliver. I got a lot of the article through context, but translation is still an area where one shouldn't sent a machine to do a human's job.

I mentioned Albright as a joke in reference to the little Borg discussion above. The google translation made it sound as if the U.S. government is controlled by different breeds of hive mind larvae. Or something. I found it hilarious.

Thanks again for the effort.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool. Thanks a lot Oliver. I got a lot of the article through context, but translation is still an area where one shouldn&#8217;t sent a machine to do a human&#8217;s job.</p>
<p>I mentioned Albright as a joke in reference to the little Borg discussion above. The google translation made it sound as if the U.S. government is controlled by different breeds of hive mind larvae. Or something. I found it hilarious.</p>
<p>Thanks again for the effort.</p>
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		<title>By: DoDo</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-uses-of-soft-power/#comment-6318</link>
		<dc:creator>DoDo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 02:04:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1032#comment-6318</guid>
		<description>Phil Hunt: "That's not what I intended by the analogy -- I don't think the EU will end up homogenous -- but I can see how people could read that into it."

And just for the record, neither did I thought you intended it as such - it's just that I thought about the Eurosceptics' likely free assotiation :-) More EU money into a post-election Ukraine, especially if aimed at project in the East, would indeed be good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Phil Hunt: &#8220;That&#8217;s not what I intended by the analogy &#8212; I don&#8217;t think the EU will end up homogenous &#8212; but I can see how people could read that into it.&#8221;</p>
<p>And just for the record, neither did I thought you intended it as such - it&#8217;s just that I thought about the Eurosceptics&#8217; likely free assotiation <img src='http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> More EU money into a post-election Ukraine, especially if aimed at project in the East, would indeed be good.</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-uses-of-soft-power/#comment-6317</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Dec 2004 01:19:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1032#comment-6317</guid>
		<description>Thence it continues degenerating into name calling. Enough public service for today.

By the way. The German word for spider is "Spinne" related to the verb. Which is rather restricted compared to its English cognate.
You don't spin yourself. You spin only a thread or an insane thought.

Larva line is a mistaken attempt to interpret Mrs. Albrights given name as a compound noun.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thence it continues degenerating into name calling. Enough public service for today.</p>
<p>By the way. The German word for spider is &#8220;Spinne&#8221; related to the verb. Which is rather restricted compared to its English cognate.<br />
You don&#8217;t spin yourself. You spin only a thread or an insane thought.</p>
<p>Larva line is a mistaken attempt to interpret Mrs. Albrights given name as a compound noun.</p>
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