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	<title>Comments on: The Outermost Regions</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-outermost-regions/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 16:58:38 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Peter</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-outermost-regions/#comment-10928</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 20 Sep 2005 11:51:28 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Am I correct in assuming that "Guyana" as mentioned in the comments is supposed to be "French Guiana?"
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Am I correct in assuming that &#8220;Guyana&#8221; as mentioned in the comments is supposed to be &#8220;French Guiana?&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: rjw</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-outermost-regions/#comment-10927</link>
		<dc:creator>rjw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:46:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Doug, the data all come from the annex tables (main regional indicators) of the 3rd cohesion report. There is some limited data on age structure , education and employment too. The link is : 

http://europa.eu.int/comm/regional_policy/sources/docoffic/official/reports/cohesion3/cohesion3_en.htm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug, the data all come from the annex tables (main regional indicators) of the 3rd cohesion report. There is some limited data on age structure , education and employment too. The link is : </p>
<p><a href="http://europa.eu.int/comm/regional_policy/sources/docoffic/official/reports/cohesion3/cohesion3_en.htm" rel="nofollow">http://europa.eu.int/comm/regional_policy/sources/docoffic/official/reports/cohesion3/cohesion3_en.htm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Doug M.</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-outermost-regions/#comment-10926</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 22:30:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1894#comment-10926</guid>
		<description>Wow, great info.  Thanks, rjw.

One additional point: Guyana and, especially, Reunion have high Gini indexes, meaning they have a lot of income and wealth inequality.  Reunion in particular is notorious for having a large underclass of very poor people, a tiny group of rich people, and hardly any middle class to speak of.  I don't know what role (if any) French transfer payments play in this.


Doug M.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, great info.  Thanks, rjw.</p>
<p>One additional point: Guyana and, especially, Reunion have high Gini indexes, meaning they have a lot of income and wealth inequality.  Reunion in particular is notorious for having a large underclass of very poor people, a tiny group of rich people, and hardly any middle class to speak of.  I don&#8217;t know what role (if any) French transfer payments play in this.</p>
<p>Doug M.</p>
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		<title>By: rjw</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-outermost-regions/#comment-10925</link>
		<dc:creator>rjw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:07:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1894#comment-10925</guid>
		<description>Also worth noting that the unemployment rate for the DOMS is very high - around 25%. Compared to around 10 for France itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also worth noting that the unemployment rate for the DOMS is very high - around 25%. Compared to around 10 for France itself.</p>
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		<title>By: rjw</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-outermost-regions/#comment-10924</link>
		<dc:creator>rjw</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 Sep 2005 20:03:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1894#comment-10924</guid>
		<description>Article 299 of the Nice Treaty specifically names the French overseas territories, the Azores, Madeira and the Canaries as being subject to the EU Treaties. Hence there is a clear Treaty basis for their unusual status.  

GDP data for these regions can be found in the third Cohesion report, published in Feb 2004, which gives the following index for GDP per head as compared to the EU average  (EU 15 in 2001 = 100, Spain = 84.2, Portugal = 70.7, France = 104.8) 

Madeira     78.4 
Azores      55.8
Guadeloupe  60.8
Martinique  67.8
Guyana      48.2
Réunion     53.5  
Canaries    79.1


All are below the EU 15 average, but Madeira is well above the Portuguese average, and the canaries do OK. The real duds are the French DOM TOMS and the Azores. 

It's worth knowing that the special Treaty status of these territories led the Regional policy commissioner in 2004 to propose that for the next EU Financial Perspective (ie next 7 years) these regions should get an extra Billion Euros, over and above normal structural fund monies, to compensate them for being "a long way from the rest of Europe"  (I kid you not). 

I guess it's just a coincidence that he was French.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Article 299 of the Nice Treaty specifically names the French overseas territories, the Azores, Madeira and the Canaries as being subject to the EU Treaties. Hence there is a clear Treaty basis for their unusual status.  </p>
<p>GDP data for these regions can be found in the third Cohesion report, published in Feb 2004, which gives the following index for GDP per head as compared to the EU average  (EU 15 in 2001 = 100, Spain = 84.2, Portugal = 70.7, France = 104.8) </p>
<p>Madeira     78.4<br />
Azores      55.8<br />
Guadeloupe  60.8<br />
Martinique  67.8<br />
Guyana      48.2<br />
Réunion     53.5<br />
Canaries    79.1</p>
<p>All are below the EU 15 average, but Madeira is well above the Portuguese average, and the canaries do OK. The real duds are the French DOM TOMS and the Azores. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s worth knowing that the special Treaty status of these territories led the Regional policy commissioner in 2004 to propose that for the next EU Financial Perspective (ie next 7 years) these regions should get an extra Billion Euros, over and above normal structural fund monies, to compensate them for being &#8220;a long way from the rest of Europe&#8221;  (I kid you not). </p>
<p>I guess it&#8217;s just a coincidence that he was French.</p>
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		<title>By: c</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-outermost-regions/#comment-10923</link>
		<dc:creator>c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2005 22:35:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1894#comment-10923</guid>
		<description>To nitpick even more Cyprus isn't part of the European continent either</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To nitpick even more Cyprus isn&#8217;t part of the European continent either</p>
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		<title>By: Antoni Jaume</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-outermost-regions/#comment-10922</link>
		<dc:creator>Antoni Jaume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2005 19:26:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1894#comment-10922</guid>
		<description>"Officially, there are six of them: Guadeloupe, French Guiana, Martinique, Réunion, the Azores, the Canaries and Madeira. Four French overseas possessions, two Spanish and one Portuguese archipelago."

To nitpick, Azores and Madeira are portuguese, and of that partial list, only Canaries are Spanish. And the "six of them" are seven...

DSW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Officially, there are six of them: Guadeloupe, French Guiana, Martinique, Réunion, the Azores, the Canaries and Madeira. Four French overseas possessions, two Spanish and one Portuguese archipelago.&#8221;</p>
<p>To nitpick, Azores and Madeira are portuguese, and of that partial list, only Canaries are Spanish. And the &#8220;six of them&#8221; are seven&#8230;</p>
<p>DSW</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-outermost-regions/#comment-10921</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:14:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1894#comment-10921</guid>
		<description>Chasing round with Google for any discussion of Basque and Guanche I found a quote from someone who is looking for the inhabitants of Atlantis (this would be veeeery esoteric). But he does make one interesting point:

"Professional anthropologists have already postulated, in a classic work on European ethnology, that the modern day Basque people of the Pyrenees Mountains (northern Spain/southern France) speak a language inherited directly from Cro-Magnon Man (Ripley, 1899). To give a couple of illustrative examples of the reasons for the above postulation, the Basque word for knife means literally "stone that cuts," and their word for ceiling means "top of the cavern" (Blanc, 1854)."

Curiously, I don't know how many realise this, the 'scientific' discovery of the Basques in the modern context (remember Spain was buried deep under Franco for a long time) dates to a post-motem carried out in a London hospital on a Spanish refugee from the Basque country during WWII where the forensic surgeon noted certain anatomical differences. This lead to a whole line of enquiry which culminates in Cavalli Sforza's DNA work.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chasing round with Google for any discussion of Basque and Guanche I found a quote from someone who is looking for the inhabitants of Atlantis (this would be veeeery esoteric). But he does make one interesting point:</p>
<p>&#8220;Professional anthropologists have already postulated, in a classic work on European ethnology, that the modern day Basque people of the Pyrenees Mountains (northern Spain/southern France) speak a language inherited directly from Cro-Magnon Man (Ripley, 1899). To give a couple of illustrative examples of the reasons for the above postulation, the Basque word for knife means literally &#8220;stone that cuts,&#8221; and their word for ceiling means &#8220;top of the cavern&#8221; (Blanc, 1854).&#8221;</p>
<p>Curiously, I don&#8217;t know how many realise this, the &#8217;scientific&#8217; discovery of the Basques in the modern context (remember Spain was buried deep under Franco for a long time) dates to a post-motem carried out in a London hospital on a Spanish refugee from the Basque country during WWII where the forensic surgeon noted certain anatomical differences. This lead to a whole line of enquiry which culminates in Cavalli Sforza&#8217;s DNA work.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-outermost-regions/#comment-10920</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2005 18:06:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1894#comment-10920</guid>
		<description>"Actually, the natives of the Canaries were of North African Berber stock."

Thanks for this Karl Heinz, this is more or less the state-of-the-art wisdom. 

At the risk of diving off into esoterica though - well we are in the 'outermost regions - the inhabitants who were there when the Spanish arrived (basically what does 'native' mean here or anywhere else for that matter) seem to have spoken a language called Guanche. Now this was, as you suggested, thought to have been related to Berber, but there has been some controversy in Spain of late since historians have found in the historical record that the original Spanish who arrived needed Basques from their midst to act as interpreters, which has lead to the speculation that there is some connection between the two languages  (and possibly indirectly between Basque and Berber, although I'm less sure about this).

Wikipedia has this:



"Guanche is an extinct language of the Canary Islands. Its SIL code is GNC. It has been out of use since the 16th century. Most linguists consider Guanche to be related to the Berber languages, but this is not certain."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Actually, the natives of the Canaries were of North African Berber stock.&#8221;</p>
<p>Thanks for this Karl Heinz, this is more or less the state-of-the-art wisdom. </p>
<p>At the risk of diving off into esoterica though - well we are in the &#8216;outermost regions - the inhabitants who were there when the Spanish arrived (basically what does &#8216;native&#8217; mean here or anywhere else for that matter) seem to have spoken a language called Guanche. Now this was, as you suggested, thought to have been related to Berber, but there has been some controversy in Spain of late since historians have found in the historical record that the original Spanish who arrived needed Basques from their midst to act as interpreters, which has lead to the speculation that there is some connection between the two languages  (and possibly indirectly between Basque and Berber, although I&#8217;m less sure about this).</p>
<p>Wikipedia has this:</p>
<p>&#8220;Guanche is an extinct language of the Canary Islands. Its SIL code is GNC. It has been out of use since the 16th century. Most linguists consider Guanche to be related to the Berber languages, but this is not certain.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: khr</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/the-outermost-regions/#comment-10919</link>
		<dc:creator>khr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 18 Sep 2005 17:28:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1894#comment-10919</guid>
		<description>A comment about the Canary Islands:

Describing their population as "Canarians are of mixed African and Spanish descent" is somewhat misleading. When people read African, they usually think of Black (i.e.Sub-Saharan) Africans. Doug himself fell into this trap in saying they are "Like Cubans and Puerto Ricans". Actually, the natives of the Canaries were of North African Berber stock. Moreover, the islands have belonged to Spain for five centuries now, and they are thoroughly acculturated. Except for minor differences in dialect, Canary Islanders are indistiguishable from Mainland Spaniards.

In recent years, there has been some immigration from Sub-Saharan Africa, but this is still marginal in terms of numbers. During various times in the 20th century, Germans, English, Hindu Indians and other groups have arrived.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A comment about the Canary Islands:</p>
<p>Describing their population as &#8220;Canarians are of mixed African and Spanish descent&#8221; is somewhat misleading. When people read African, they usually think of Black (i.e.Sub-Saharan) Africans. Doug himself fell into this trap in saying they are &#8220;Like Cubans and Puerto Ricans&#8221;. Actually, the natives of the Canaries were of North African Berber stock. Moreover, the islands have belonged to Spain for five centuries now, and they are thoroughly acculturated. Except for minor differences in dialect, Canary Islanders are indistiguishable from Mainland Spaniards.</p>
<p>In recent years, there has been some immigration from Sub-Saharan Africa, but this is still marginal in terms of numbers. During various times in the 20th century, Germans, English, Hindu Indians and other groups have arrived.</p>
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