Comments on: Subsidiarity To The Rescue? http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/subsidiarity-to-the-rescue/ European Opinion Sat, 10 Jan 2009 02:47:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Scott MacMillan http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/subsidiarity-to-the-rescue/#comment-9072 Scott MacMillan Thu, 16 Jun 2005 17:26:21 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1542#comment-9072 "and the Treaty as a whole a big move in the other direction." How so? In any case, I think the original proposal was to implement ONLY the subsidiarity portion of the Treaty. Sure, it can be strengthened (immediately, or over time) to give national parliaments something more than a "consultative" voice. But it's hard for me to see how the implementing the subsidiarity portion of the treaty would be a step away from subsidiarity, considering national parliaments currently have zero say in EU decision making (short of recalling the national government). Am I mistaken here? “and the Treaty as a whole a big move in the other direction.”

How so?

In any case, I think the original proposal was to implement ONLY the subsidiarity portion of the Treaty. Sure, it can be strengthened (immediately, or over time) to give national parliaments something more than a “consultative” voice. But it’s hard for me to see how the implementing the subsidiarity portion of the treaty would be a step away from subsidiarity, considering national parliaments currently have zero say in EU decision making (short of recalling the national government).

Am I mistaken here?

]]> By: John Montague http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/subsidiarity-to-the-rescue/#comment-9071 John Montague Wed, 15 Jun 2005 04:09:29 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1542#comment-9071 How about setting up an EU agency (nice jobs for eurocrats, keep em happy) whose sole function is finding EU over-regulation and propsing its elimination. This body could even be set a target, like parking wardens - identify so many over-regulations a quarter, say. After all, the adversarial principle seems to work in the law courts -- ;) How about setting up an EU agency (nice jobs for eurocrats, keep em happy) whose sole function is finding EU over-regulation and propsing its elimination. This body could even be set a target, like parking wardens - identify so many over-regulations a quarter, say. After all, the adversarial principle seems to work in the law courts — ;)

]]> By: Oliver http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/subsidiarity-to-the-rescue/#comment-9070 Oliver Wed, 15 Jun 2005 02:52:13 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1542#comment-9070 The problem with that principle is that it introduces yet more veto power and no clear responsibilities. If the EU legislates too much, shrink its legislative competencies. The problem with that principle is that it introduces yet more veto power and no clear responsibilities. If the EU legislates too much, shrink its legislative competencies.

]]> By: Otto http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/subsidiarity-to-the-rescue/#comment-9069 Otto Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:29:25 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1542#comment-9069 Alex This was a post about whether the most recent EU treaty's subsidiarity provision was worth implementing. My comments related to the contents of the post. If you don't think that subsidiarity (or better, preventing centralisation of policy in absence of significant cross-border externalities, cine some define subsidiarity as a demand for more centralisation) is desirable, maybe because you dont like your national government, then that's fine. My point only is that if you do agree that subsidiarity is desirable, the treaty's provisions are not worth bothering with, and the Treaty as a whole a big move in the other direction. Alex

This was a post about whether the most recent EU treaty’s subsidiarity provision was worth implementing. My comments related to the contents of the post. If you don’t think that subsidiarity (or better, preventing centralisation of policy in absence of significant cross-border externalities, cine some define subsidiarity as a demand for more centralisation) is desirable, maybe because you dont like your national government, then that’s fine. My point only is that if you do agree that subsidiarity is desirable, the treaty’s provisions are not worth bothering with, and the Treaty as a whole a big move in the other direction.

]]> By: DavidP http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/subsidiarity-to-the-rescue/#comment-9068 DavidP Tue, 14 Jun 2005 22:15:46 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1542#comment-9068 Jack Straw, interviewed on the BBC, said he had managed to keep some references to Turkey in the communiqu? that the EU Foreign Ministers issued, Monday, in spite of some states not wanting to mention Turkey at all, mindful that it had been a factor, if not the largest, in rejections of the constitution. http://davidp1.blogspot.com/2005/06/wreckage-part-2.html Jack Straw, interviewed on the BBC, said he had managed to keep some references to Turkey in the communiqu? that the EU Foreign Ministers issued, Monday, in spite of some states not wanting to mention Turkey at all, mindful that it had been a factor, if not the largest, in rejections of the constitution.

http://davidp1.blogspot.com/2005/06/wreckage-part-2.html

]]> By: Alex http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/subsidiarity-to-the-rescue/#comment-9067 Alex Tue, 14 Jun 2005 21:50:51 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1542#comment-9067 Frankly, Otto, my national government has in my memory talked about making "hoodies" illegal, legislated to make music with "repetitive beats" illegal, passed a special law on organised crime with provisions to get rid of one single specific protestor outside Parliament, brought in legislation to lock people up who specifically have not done anything against the law...and you want me to worry about the EU? Regarding "wrangling". I wouldn't worry - another word for it is "politics". Frankly, Otto, my national government has in my memory talked about making “hoodies” illegal, legislated to make music with “repetitive beats” illegal, passed a special law on organised crime with provisions to get rid of one single specific protestor outside Parliament, brought in legislation to lock people up who specifically have not done anything against the law…and you want me to worry about the EU?

Regarding “wrangling”. I wouldn’t worry - another word for it is “politics”.

]]> By: otto http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/subsidiarity-to-the-rescue/#comment-9066 otto Tue, 14 Jun 2005 20:00:55 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1542#comment-9066 There's nothing to be gained from the treaty's subsidiarity provision. The only reason it is in the treaty is that this token nod to an arrangement to protect "subsidiarity" was likely to have no effect on the continuing centralisation of power and mega-regulation which are the EU's preferred policy for institutions and outputs, just like the previous creation of subsidiarity in the follow up to the Danish vote on Maastricht had zero effect on the EU's regulatory ambitions, which in fact have grown enormously since then. The way to keep policy close to national electorates is to remove competences from the EU and to make the majority required to introduce EU laws very high (i.e. the opposite of the treaty proposals), not to persue tokenistic "consultative" involvement of national parliaments in EU policy-making. There’s nothing to be gained from the treaty’s subsidiarity provision. The only reason it is in the treaty is that this token nod to an arrangement to protect “subsidiarity” was likely to have no effect on the continuing centralisation of power and mega-regulation which are the EU’s preferred policy for institutions and outputs, just like the previous creation of subsidiarity in the follow up to the Danish vote on Maastricht had zero effect on the EU’s regulatory ambitions, which in fact have grown enormously since then. The way to keep policy close to national electorates is to remove competences from the EU and to make the majority required to introduce EU laws very high (i.e. the opposite of the treaty proposals), not to persue tokenistic “consultative” involvement of national parliaments in EU policy-making.

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