It wasn’t clear over the weekend how the Zimbabwe crisis could manage to get more complicated but now we know: Morgan Tsvangirai has taken refuge in the Dutch embassy in Harare. It seems that he was left with little choice since, far from seeing his withdrawal from Friday’s “election” as a concession, the state security apparatus was taking the opportunity to crush the MDC. A few things now seem clearer. First, the EU is now drawn into the crisis more than before. The US and UK are probably relieved that it wasn’t their embassies. Second, the regional approach to crisis resolution has failed i.e. leaving it to the Southern African Development Community. And it has failed because of Thabo Mbeki [Incidentally, I once heard a South African political comedian observe that you can't spell Thabo without Botha]. Any notion that Mugabe had enough reasonableness left in him to ease towards a compromise is gone — his plan was to unleash all the thugs this week, no matter what. Anyway, one hopes that the EU can look up long enough from the Irish dossier to see a crisis looming.
June 23, 2008
What's this?
You are currently reading a article at A Fistful of Euros, a blog in the afoe family. This entry's title is Hard to hide from trouble, was written by P O Neill, and published on in the main category Europe and the world. It is one out of entries in this blog, and there are currently 17 comments discussing it. Maybe yours is the next?
Related Posts
- No related posts.
Tags
- No tags for this post.
search within afoe
archives: by date
- August 2008
- July 2008
- June 2008
- May 2008
- April 2008
- March 2008
- February 2008
- January 2008
- December 2007
- November 2007
- October 2007
- September 2007
- August 2007
- July 2007
- June 2007
- May 2007
- April 2007
- March 2007
- February 2007
- January 2007
- December 2006
- November 2006
- October 2006
- September 2006
- August 2006
- July 2006
- June 2006
- May 2006
- April 2006
- March 2006
- February 2006
- January 2006
- December 2005
- November 2005
- October 2005
- September 2005
- August 2005
- July 2005
- June 2005
- May 2005
- April 2005
- March 2005
- February 2005
- January 2005
- December 2004
- November 2004
- October 2004
- September 2004
- August 2004
- July 2004
- June 2004
- May 2004
- April 2004
- March 2004
- February 2004
- January 2004
- December 2003
- November 2003
- October 2003
- September 2003
archives: by category
- Culture
- Currencies
- Economics and demography
- Energy
- Europe and the world
- France
- General management
- Geography
- Germany
- Governments and parties
- History
- Life
- Minorities and integration
- Misc
- Not Europe
- Political issues
- Religion
- Science and research
- Terrorism
- The European Union
- Transition and accession
- Ukraine
- Vampires
- Websites
archives: tag cloud
Culture
Armenia
fertility
Currencies
Israel
Kosovo
European Commission
Western and Central Europe
labour
europe
turkish
eurozone
Governments and parties
Bosnia
Transition and accession
China
demographic change
Afghanistan
georgia
montenegro
Business
Terrorism
market
Spanish
nation
Austria
yushchenko
london
currency
military
economy
belgium
Political issues
european
Netherlands
germans
police
members
monetary
macedonia
Economics
growth
the world
public
nuclear
the government
Hungary
rights
Minorities and integration
christian democrats
Not Europe
markets
blogging
international
governments
change
britain
demand
migragtion
ageing
Serbia
employment
the Bush administration
immigration
Europe and the world
independence
industry
EU Constitution
productivity
america
migration
membership
The CIS and South Eastern Europe
children
politics
Germany
security
system
greece
USA
Books
general
political
reforms
private
Nicholas Sarkozy
candidate
students
EU
Dollar
On the Internets
democrats
ukrainian
soviet
elections
chirac
Religion
majority
administration
History
opposition
European Union
school
prices
European Constitution
Misc
football
population
english
France
Energy
freedom
member
workers
Websites
reform
troops
immigrants
budget
ECB
Ukraine
Economics and demography
countries
portugal
ireland
education
parliament
prime minister
deficit
inflation
democratic
bulgaria
religious
western
Russia
yanukovich
the spd
EU accession
coalition
policy
revolution
Euro
Silvio Berlusconi
people
constitution
attacks
language
muslim
Communism
treaty
democracy
president
intelligence
the euro
Albania
interest
parties
investment
referendum
family
problem
society
turkey
voting
European Central Bank
chancellor
government
ethnicity
member states
Life
the west
structural
Czech Republic
General management
Angela Merkel
romania
council
French Presidential elections 2007
national
companies
Islam
social
Croatia
Italy
region
unemployment
Poland
CDU
economist
serbian government
consumption
archives: by author
The Fistful
- Scott Martens
- David Weman
- Nick Barlow
- Matthew Turner
- Tobias Schwarz
- Edward Hugh
- Doug Merrill
- Mrs Tilton
- Douglas Muir
- Alex Harrowell
- Guy La Roche
- Emmanuel
- Scott MacMillan
- Claudia Muir
- Brussels Gonzo
- Jamie Kenny
- P O Neill
Our Guests
recent posts
- Doug Merrill | Dushanbe Diplomacy
- Douglas Muir | The Greeks of Burundi
- P O Neill | Lisbon treaty ratification still in the doldrums
- Doug Merrill | Just Foolish
- Doug Merrill | How Frozen is Your Conflict?
- P O Neill | The road to peace in the Caucasus runs through … Rome?
- Douglas Muir | Dans la Francophonie
- Douglas Muir | Eastern Europe: slowing growth?
- Douglas Muir | Russia has BFFs too
- Douglas Muir | Georgia, Bulgaria and the Second Balkan War
- Douglas Muir | Gamsakhurdia
- Doug Merrill | Back in Tbilisi
- P O Neill | Hamlet without the Prince
- David Weman | By request: Croatia and the EU
recent comments
- Todd Thompson | Dushanbe Diplomacy
- Ron Hulscher | How Frozen is Your Conflict?
- Toader | Dushanbe Diplomacy
- Randy McDonald | Dushanbe Diplomacy
- Doug Merrill | Dushanbe Diplomacy
- Al | South Ossetia: alea jacta est
- b | Dushanbe Diplomacy
- P O'Neill | Dushanbe Diplomacy
- Tom | Georgia, Bulgaria and the Second Balkan War
- Alina | Georgia, Bulgaria and the Second Balkan War
Recent Trackbacks:
- The 8th Circle: Sovereignty out the window?
- Armenia & the South Caucasus | The Caucasian Knot: Georgia: Armenia’s Predicament
- By The Fault: Tensions with Russia on the Rise
- Click Here: Click Here...
- afoe | A Fistful of Euros | European Opinion: How Frozen is Your Conflict?
feeds
Politics in Europe
Scattered and sundry
- Jacob Christensen
- Jan’s EU Blog
- Margot Wallström
- Gideon Rachman
- nEUrosis (on hiatus)
- Bondwoman et al
- Centre for european reform blog
- Centre for European Politics blog
- Richard Corbett MEP
- Stanley Crossick
- Davos Newbies
- Erkan’s field diary
- Harry’s Place
- Re:Europa
- Mark Mardell, BBC EUrope
- Euros du village
- Federal Union
- Europhobia
To Our Left
- BertramOnline
- Blood and Treasure
- Comment is free: Daniel Davies
- Crooked Timber
- D-squared Digest
- European Tribune
- Johann Hari
- Martin Stabe
- Moon of Alabama
- The TransAtlantic Assembly
- Alex Harrowell
To Our Right
- Best of Both Worlds
- FT Brussels Blog
- Gideon Rachman
- DJ Nozem
- Eamonn Fitzgerald
- Reflections on European democracy
- EURSOC
- Certain Ideas of Europe
- Open Europe
- Telos
Well To Our Left
Well To Our Right
Central Europe
Southeastern Europe
- Aegean Disclosure
- Argumente
- Balkanalysis.com
- Balkan Baby
- Blogo Slovo
- Balkanizer
- Romantic
- Halfway down the Danube
- Dragan Antulov
- East Ethnia
- The Balkan Yankee
- Me Against the Keyboard
- Illyrian Gazette
- Our Man in Tirana
- Turkish Torque
- Anegdote
- Belgrade 2.0
Eastern Europe
- Armenian Patchwork
- Steady State
- Democracy Rising
- English Russia
- foreign notes
- A Step At A Time
- One World
- The Argus
- Ruminations on Russia
- Russian Forces
- Russpundit
- Scraps of Moscow
- The 8th Circle
- The Russian Dilettante
- Veronica Khokhlova
- New Eurasia
- Siberian Light
- The Copy Dude
Western Europe
The Isles
Life in Europe
Academia/Science
- Demography Matters
- Eszter Hargittai
- Panchromatica
- Jill Walker
- Olivia Judson
- Real Climate
- Silentio
- Peter Lindberg
- thinking with my fingers
- Chris Brooke
- Andart
- Alf Rehn
- Hemmungen (on hiatus)
- World Changing
Economics
- Martin Wolf Economists Forum
- Bonobo Land
- Claus Vistesen
- Eurozone Watch Blog
- EuroIntelligence
- Global Economy Matters
- New Economist
- Economomonitor
- Nouriel Roubini
- Robert Waldmann
- Stumbling and Mumbling
- Market Movers by Felix Salmon
- Vox
Lawblogs
Media
Humor
- Glory of Carniola
- Chase me ladies, I’m in the cavalry
- EuroTrash
- JonnyB
- Topic Drift
- little.red.boat
- Sadly, No!
- A Welsh View
Culture
- Adland
- The Fate of the Artist
- Emmanuelle Richard
- European History Blog
- Europe Endless
- Heaven Tree
- Horst Prillinger
- Dumneazu
- From the Heart of Europe
- Amateur d’art
- The diaries of Franz Kafka
- Diary of Samuel Pepys
- Desbladet
- Serendipity
- Bagatell
- Venale Pecus
- we make money not art
- Chocolate and Zucchini
- La Coquette
- Castrovalva
- Netlex
- Giornale Nuovo (not updated)
- LinkMachineGo
City Blogs
- Metroblogging Berlin
- Metroblogging Birmingham
- Metroblogging Dublin
- Going Underground’s Blog
- Metroblogging London
- Londonist
- Metroblogging Paris
- Pestiside
- Metroblogging Vienna
- Parisist in English
This and that
- The 6th International
- Blogfonte
- Flaschenpost
- Felix Salmon
- Aris Katsaris
- metamorphosism
- Mutant Cat
- Neil Gaiman
- Scott Hanson
- High Postage
- the raw and the cooked
- Ria Bacon
- Reinder Dijkhuis
- Shortcut
- Sodazitron
- Stefan Geens
- Warren Ellis
- World Economies Blog
- Almost A Diary
- Charlie Stross
- Blagdaross
- Gavin’s Blog
- Scotty Mac
- Helmintholog
Slice of Life
- Cancergiggles
- Diamond Geezer
- Dispatches From France
- Claudia Muir: Expatria
- Girl with a one-track mind
- Lost in Transit
- Loxias
- Maitresse
- The Other Side of the Ocean
- Johnny Billericay
- Random Acts of Reality
- Rhian Salmon
- My Boyfriend Is A Twat
- Francis Strand
- Kristin Espinasse
- Iceland Weather Report
- Isoglossia
- Iain J Coleman
- Lucy Pepper
- Peter Maling
- Aidan Kehoe
- petite anglaise
- Troubled Diva
Techstuff
- Ogle Earth
- Thuring’s Templates
- 456 Berea Street
- Ben Hammersley
- Louise Ferguson
- misbehaving.net
- Textism
Business
- Technologies du Langage
- Adam Curry
- Loic Le Meur
- Paolo Valdemarin
- Voidstar
- Conversations Blog
- Gaping Void
- Heiko Hebig
- Neville Hobson
- nowEurope
- PaidContent.org
- Tom Coates
- Torsten Jacobi’s Weblog
Photo Blogs
- Le Weblog de Jean-Sebastien
- MCR Art
- mellimage
- 5063
- Boulevard St Michel
- De Steen der Eigenwijzen
- Kinuk
- North Atlantic Skyline
- smudo.org
Discontinued blogs
- Back Seat Drivers
- Berlin Sprouts
- Mats Lind
- JR (Douze Lunes)
- Hollandaise
- Europolyphony
- The Bonassus
- jogin.com :: Weblog
- Kommisarie F. Curiosa
- Living With Caucasians
- Not Saussure
- SueAndNotU
- Tharyps the Molossian
- Jurjen Smies: No Cameras
- The Puerta del Sol Blog
- The Young Fogey
in French
- Netpolitique
- Veuve Tarquine
- De bric et de blog
- Christophe Carignano
- Ceteris Paribus
- Le Blog d’Econoclaste
- Embruns
- Journal d’un avocat
- Le Blagueur à Paris
- PaxaBlog
- Publius
- Sale Bete
- Un swissroll
- maviesansmoi
- versac
- Phersu
- Big Bang Blog
- Blogorrhée
- Mme Martin
- Parisist
- Pasfolle
- Rue89
in German
Not Europe
Some blogs, unsorted
- Amygdala
- One Good Thing
- John and Belle Have A Blog
- Fafblog (on hiatus)
- Edward Hasbrouck
- Idiocentrism
- 100 Films
- Matt Welch
- Making Light
- Pharyngula
- Happy Booker
- Opinions You Should Have
- 3 Quarks Daily
- Arts & Letters Daily
- Cosma Shalizi
- Gridskipper
- Invisible Adjunct
- Language Hat
- Long Story, Short Pier
- Nobody Knows Anything
International Politics
- Angua’s First Blog
- FP Passport
- Fruits and Votes
- Tony Karon
- Belgravia Dispatch
- Daniel Drezner
- Global Voices Online
- Randy McDonald’s Livejournal
- Locus Solus
- Political Theory Daily Review
- Ripple of Hope
- UN Dispatch
International economics
Middle East Politics
- Abu Aardvark
- Brian Ulrich
- Head Heeb
- Lounsbury on MENA
- Spencer Ackerman
- American Footprints
- Aqoul
- Christopher Allbritton
- Juan Cole
US Politics
Not weblogs
News Sources
- Der Spiegel International
- Deutsche Welle
- Eurasia Insight
- Hungary Around the Clock
- Sign & Sight
- Sign & Sight: In Today’s Feuilletons
- The Moscow Times
- Transitions Online
- Turkish Digest
Some links, unsorted
- The New International Times
- Stephen Fry
- Economist’s Voice
- Bonde.com
- the eXile
- Expatica
- Friends of Europe
- List of Expat bloggers
- openDemocracy
Magazines
- Words Without Borderst
- café babel
- Foreign Affairs
- Foreign Policy
- The London Review of Books
- Newropeans Magazine
- The New York Review of Books
- Prospect
- The Globalist
EU News Sources
- Yahoo!: EU News
- EU Business
- EUobserver
- EUpolitix
- Euractiv
- euro-correspondent.com
- Euro-reporters
- European Voice
- The Sprout
Scholarship
EU Resources
Blogads
Text Link Ads
Google Adsense
Contact
editors [at] fistfulofeuros [dot] net Email an author at: firstname [dot] lastname [at] fistfulofeuros [dot] net
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:11 pm
But what is the EU to do? When can fly out Morgan Tsvangirai but that is essentially everything.
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:13 pm
“When” should actually mean “we”. I wanted to say “We can fly out Morgan Tsvangirai but that is essentially everything.”
June 23rd, 2008 at 8:14 pm
From a distance of course they are very handicapped. But the quiet diplomacy of letting Mbeki sort it out is going nowhere. It’s not even clear that Mbeki has put much thought into the question of where millions of Zimbabweans will be headed as the place further implodes. So I would say that Step 1 for the EU is to identify lame ducks where they see one.
June 24th, 2008 at 12:56 pm
Step 1 would be to figure out why we care.
The countries that would take the refugees will have to act anyway.
June 24th, 2008 at 1:29 pm
The Mugabe problem is for the Africans to solve. The EU has no business tdo meddle in that mess. Did it mix up with Idi Amin or Charles Taylor ? Not to mention Issène Habré and other African dictators
June 25th, 2008 at 9:19 am
Mbeki’s problem is that if there’s a civil war in Zimbabwe, even more people are going to head over the border. Perhaps those begging him to kick one off might remember that.
Probably now the best bet is to declare a wide-ranging amnesty for all those outside the top 100 of ZANU, Zim army and Air Force leaders, then watch the middle layers fall away and come to terms. The people who have to reach a united front on that declaration are Africans, not Europeans (though to be credible the amnesty would probably need a Security Council resolution backing it up).
The best thing for the UK government to do here is to shut up, and keep its head down within any EU effort (perhaps unconditionally and quietly throwing in the Lancaster House funds to any settlement). Those who profess to care could, for example, offer to underwrite the costs to the South African economy of the ongoing Zimbabwean refugee influx. Otherwise, it’s all the worst kind of posturing.
June 26th, 2008 at 8:22 am
Of course, Europe was very heavily involved in South Africa during the transition to apartheid.
It seems to me that there are a lot of things Europe could do that wouldn’t involve armed force that it isn’t doing. Paying high-profile visits to Botswana, for example, while snubbing South Africa. Issuing statements in support of South African trade unions, who know state repression when they see it.
Ultimately, Mugabe is going to die, and then things will change, though maybe that will just mean another genocide of Nbedele.
June 26th, 2008 at 6:38 pm
[...] South Africa’s president Thabo Mbeki has screwed it: While his successor Jacob Zuma beefs up his profile by strongly speaking out against Mr. Mugabe, [...]
June 27th, 2008 at 2:19 pm
All of these suggestions for diplomacy are fine, except for the fact that people are dying. This is the problem with diplomacy.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:09 pm
The alternatives to diplomacy are comprehensive sanctions and/or war. These kill people too, always in numbers larger than ZANU have managed since 1983. Often they kill people in numbers larger than ZANU have ever managed.
NB - I have no brief for ZANU, who have royally screwed up the lives of several of my friends.
June 27th, 2008 at 4:36 pm
Chris,
From what you are suggesting, there is nothing that can be done. The people of Zimbabwe should just resign themselves that they are going to die from either Mugabe thugs killing them, or they are going to starve to death.
June 28th, 2008 at 5:23 pm
Well Tom, you might want to scroll up the thread to where I suggest that there _is_ something that can be done: indict the top 100 ZANU criminals, pardon the rest, and wait for the coup. But it’s the AU who need to make the first move. Meanwhile, us UKnians who proclaim that it’s morally horrible to stand by could perhaps keep ourselves busy by lobbying our government to overthrow the house of Saud.
June 30th, 2008 at 11:33 am
Chris,
Since the AU has not made a move, the people of Zimbabwe are either going to be killed by Mugabe, or they are going to starve to death. That is some choice that you suggest.
July 1st, 2008 at 12:34 am
Yeah, you’re right Tom - let’s bomb them. That always works.
July 1st, 2008 at 11:29 am
Chris,
If you were to ask a typical Zimbabwean who is either under threat of death from Mugabe’s thugs or is starving to death, my bet is that they would vote for military intervention to remove Mugabe. Your liberal view that there should never be war is naive, and people in Zimbabwe are dying because of that viewpoint.
Tom
July 1st, 2008 at 5:17 pm
I don’t hold a liberal view that there should never be war. This might be because I’m not a liberal. I can, however, count. This year in Zimbabwe hundreds of people have been killed by ZANU-PF. I can’t get any easy figures for current rates of excess deaths from famine - can you help me? But nobody’s coming out with them, either, which would imply that the threatened (and all-too-likely) famine has yet to arrive.
Any conceivable war in Zimbabwe would kill hundreds: it’s likely to lead to a crisis of subsistence which would kill tens of thousands. Thus I can’t accept your logic, which is to argue that people are dying and thus war should be welcome. War kills people too. You need to shift your argument to different grounds (perhaps, ‘freedom is worth some deaths’) before I’m going to take it seriously.
And if a majority of Zimbabweans were in favour of an actual war, we’d probably see some signs of it: I have not come across any evidence that (for example) MDC groups, or even Ndebele nationalist groups, are themselves attempting to engage in armed struggle against ZANU-PF. If you’ve got any I’d be happy to see it. Any response to that point which argues that they’ve not started shooting because they are totally cowed by the ZANU-PF apparatus brings into focus the fact that dismantling that apparatus is going to cost lots of lives. Do you have any suggestions as to who’s going to be doing the fighting and dying to get rid of them?
July 1st, 2008 at 7:29 pm
Here is an article talking to Busani Ncube of the Bulawayo project calling for military action.
http://www.africanloft.com/zimbabwe-time-international-military-intervention/
So killing ZANU-PF members is not worth it to stop them from killing innocent people? By this logic, despots around the world should never be confronted because killing them is costing lives. If you negotiate with them long enough, the killing will stop because the despot will die of old age. I am having an extremely hard time understanding the liberal mindset.