Ah, the fun of quoting myself!

So what did ABC news report yesterday?

Dec. 5, 2005 — Two CIA secret prisons were operating in Eastern Europe until last month when they were shut down following Human Rights Watch reports of their existence in Poland and Romania.

Current and former CIA officers speaking to ABC News on the condition of confidentiality say the United States scrambled to get all the suspects off European soil before Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice arrived there today. The officers say 11 top al Qaeda suspects have now been moved to a new CIA facility in the North African desert.

http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=1375123

Joe, i guess you are an American cause that is simply not true

If this question is why nations are not buying it, then what you are really asking is do they want to transfer money to other European nations or do they want an aircraft which has military capability and at what cost.

You could ask Greece the same question>

The eurofighter is a great jobs program but for nations which might one day need a combat figther it is still less than the F-16, F-15E or the F-18.

“Welcome, Mr. X, to prison camp Y in Z, the leading provider of interrogation solutions in this part of Europe. You’ll be issued a stamped certificate of torture upon release”

How would you provide evidence for an allegation like this? The mistake with the digital cameras will not be repeated. And maybe these people simply “disappear”

No, I think we’re saying the same thing. Just paraphrased. My original cite was from here, and it’s just rephrasing Article 7 of Maastricht.

Someone said Parliament is a wild card. Yes, but not in the way you might thing. There’s a broad nationalist streak in Parliament. IMO it’s very very unlikely that such a proposal would ever get out of it. Too many countries have their own dirty laundry.

France, for instance, probably doesn’t mind seeing uppity Poland rapped on the knuckles. But France’s human rights record is no great shakes — they regularly practice extraordinary rendition, for instance. So I really doubt they’d like to see the precedent of even having such a measure introduced, never mind passed.

Doug M.

Nope. If the threat would be carried out, then yes. This way, all he does is affirming that you have to preserve deniability. That is not new.

Referring to this case, I think that it’s not a question of money but rather a question of how to behave in an “ethical” and “communitarian” landscape.

I’d take the bet, if the Polish prime minister or president said, “Yes, we have CIA prisons on our territory. Yes, torture is acceptable in the fight against terror.” Etc.

Now Kwasniewski just said he wasn’t informed about all planes landing and taking off in Poland.

And if there are CIA prison camps in the EU, they will “disappear”. Because Frattini (and a lot of other EU politicians) took that stand.

That looks to me the issue. It is about the crime, more than the punishment.