Comments on: Disgraceful http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful/ European Opinion Sat, 22 Nov 2008 14:58:54 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Oliver http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful/#comment-17699 Oliver Tue, 26 Jun 2007 11:27:34 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful#comment-17699 Which is odd. There should be a least a noticeable minority which considers individual members too small to set up rules, but thinks that the EU as a whole is large enough to force rules on the market. Did the enlargement kill all hopes of that group? If the left as a whole turns against the EU, the EU is in deep trouble. Which is odd. There should be a least a noticeable minority which considers individual members too small to set up rules, but thinks that the EU as a whole is large enough to force rules on the market.
Did the enlargement kill all hopes of that group?

If the left as a whole turns against the EU, the EU is in deep trouble.

]]> By: Doug Merrill http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful/#comment-17691 Doug Merrill Mon, 25 Jun 2007 13:24:09 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful#comment-17691 Careful, Alex! Up until now, my most reliable indicator for when Europeans stop thinking and start ranting has been the use of the word "neo-liberal." If you succeed in insisting on pesky things like facts, I'm likely to lose a perfectly good shortcut. Careful, Alex! Up until now, my most reliable indicator for when Europeans stop thinking and start ranting has been the use of the word “neo-liberal.” If you succeed in insisting on pesky things like facts, I’m likely to lose a perfectly good shortcut.

]]> By: Alex http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful/#comment-17690 Alex Mon, 25 Jun 2007 12:36:50 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful#comment-17690 <em>This - the ‘open market’ - is what Blair was after and failed to get.</em> Oh, for Christ's sake. Enough with the denialism. It's in the sodding Treaty of Rome! Jesus Monnet and St. Robert Schuman put it there! This - the ‘open market’ - is what Blair was after and failed to get.

Oh, for Christ’s sake. Enough with the denialism. It’s in the sodding Treaty of Rome! Jesus Monnet and St. Robert Schuman put it there!

]]> By: Groucheaux http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful/#comment-17689 Groucheaux Mon, 25 Jun 2007 09:11:01 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful#comment-17689 I hear the sound of points being missed...what this is really about is the fight to defend Europe from being laid open to US-led rapacious neo-liberal capitalism. This - the 'open market' - is what Blair was after and failed to get. He was turned over by the foxy Sarkozy, who far from being the neo-con outrider that the Anglophone right hoped for is increasingly looking like a doughty defender of not only French interests but the traditional Gallic values of humanity and real enlightened liberalism. The Polish nonsense was just a sideshow, with Sarko stealing the opportunity to win kudos by saving Merkel's embarrasment. I hear the sound of points being missed…what this is really about is the fight to defend Europe from being laid open to US-led rapacious neo-liberal capitalism. This - the ‘open market’ - is what Blair was after and failed to get. He was turned over by the foxy Sarkozy, who far from being the neo-con outrider that the Anglophone right hoped for is increasingly looking like a doughty defender of not only French interests but the traditional Gallic values of humanity and real enlightened liberalism. The Polish nonsense was just a sideshow, with Sarko stealing the opportunity to win kudos by saving Merkel’s embarrasment.

]]> By: Guy http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful/#comment-17687 Guy Sun, 24 Jun 2007 23:44:50 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful#comment-17687 Thanks, Luis, but the document you refer to is the press release on the Presidency Conclusions + treaty draft I referred to dated 21/22 June. I would like to see the changes that are made to this draft. Thanks, Luis, but the document you refer to is the press release on the Presidency Conclusions + treaty draft I referred to dated 21/22 June. I would like to see the changes that are made to this draft.

]]> By: Jonathan Even-Zohar http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful/#comment-17686 Jonathan Even-Zohar Sun, 24 Jun 2007 20:47:17 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful#comment-17686 This treaty may be enough to pass by the Dutch Parliament, but already th far-left AND the far-right have risen to the occasion to move Balkenende (PM) toward another referendum. This would be disasterous for the netherlands i imagine. Overall it seems the EU is costing more and more political capital everytime a national leader gets involved in it. This treaty may be enough to pass by the Dutch Parliament, but already th far-left AND the far-right have risen to the occasion to move Balkenende (PM) toward another referendum. This would be disasterous for the netherlands i imagine.
Overall it seems the EU is costing more and more political capital everytime a national leader gets involved in it.

]]> By: Oliver http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful/#comment-17685 Oliver Sun, 24 Jun 2007 19:54:14 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful#comment-17685 >The EU member states are responding >to the fact that the outcome of these >referenda and suchlike have nothing >to do with the population’s actual >feelings on the constitution but turn >into (very expensive) polls on That's nothing but a fundamental attack on referenda themselves. I can equally correctly simply assert that they voted on the EU as such. >The EU member states are responding >to the fact that the outcome of these >referenda and suchlike have nothing >to do with the population’s actual >feelings on the constitution but turn >into (very expensive) polls on

That’s nothing but a fundamental attack on referenda themselves. I can equally correctly simply assert that they voted on the EU as such.

]]> By: Maynard Handley http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful/#comment-17684 Maynard Handley Sun, 24 Jun 2007 18:24:12 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful#comment-17684 "It’s a shame and a disgrace that the EU member states have responded to the 2005 defeat by going back to their old practice of seeking to achieve integration by boring the general public into submission, and a very substantial backward step." Oh don't be ridiculous, David. The EU member states are responding to the fact that the outcome of these referenda and suchlike have nothing to do with the population's actual feelings on the constitution but turn into (very expensive) polls on feelings regarding the government of each particular state at the time. You have to deal with the electorate you have, not the electorate you wish you had, and the European electorate have proved themselves to be a bunch of twits in this regard. (And I say this not because of the outcomes, but because of why they chose those outcomes.) “It’s a shame and a disgrace that the EU member states have responded to the 2005 defeat by going back to their old practice of seeking to achieve integration by boring the general public into submission, and a very substantial backward step.”

Oh don’t be ridiculous, David.
The EU member states are responding to the fact that the outcome of these referenda and suchlike have nothing to do with the population’s actual feelings on the constitution but turn into (very expensive) polls on feelings regarding the government of each particular state at the time.

You have to deal with the electorate you have, not the electorate you wish you had, and the European electorate have proved themselves to be a bunch of twits in this regard. (And I say this not because of the outcomes, but because of why they chose those outcomes.)

]]> By: Luís http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful/#comment-17683 Luís Sun, 24 Jun 2007 16:11:06 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful#comment-17683 Not a treaty yet, just a mandate for Socrates to write one. Here it is: http://www.consilium.europa.eu/ueDocs/cms_Data/docs/pressData/en/ec/94932.pdf Mind you - the text of the mandate itself starts only on page 16. Not a treaty yet, just a mandate for Socrates to write one.

Here it is:

http://www.consilium.europa.eu/ueDocs/cms_Data/docs/pressData/en/ec/94932.pdf

Mind you - the text of the mandate itself starts only on page 16.

]]> By: Guy http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful/#comment-17682 Guy Sun, 24 Jun 2007 13:37:11 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/disgraceful#comment-17682 And I still haven't managed to find a copy of the new treaty online... So much for Wallstrom's Plan D. Has anyone else tracked it down? I am not talking about the Presidency Conclusions dated June 21/22 and published the 23rd. (http://www.tiny.cc/VT8qz) And I still haven’t managed to find a copy of the new treaty online… So much for Wallstrom’s Plan D.

Has anyone else tracked it down? I am not talking about the Presidency Conclusions dated June 21/22 and published the 23rd. (http://www.tiny.cc/VT8qz)

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