Comments on: Back to the Roots. http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/back-to-the-roots/ European Opinion Fri, 09 Jan 2009 21:23:09 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: CapTVK http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/back-to-the-roots/#comment-9024 CapTVK Tue, 14 Jun 2005 17:37:46 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1535#comment-9024 Oliver, This isn't about what our great-grandfathers did do. It's about more about what they did not choose to. Ortega's argument is about a common set of European values and beliefs. It isn't primarily French, German, English or spanish. While the argument is old it remains remarkably vaild today. We need a grand common enterprise to unite us. Otherwise "Europe" doesn't have a reason to exist. Oliver,

This isn’t about what our great-grandfathers did do. It’s about more about what they did not choose to.

Ortega’s argument is about a common set of European values and beliefs. It isn’t primarily French, German, English or spanish. While the argument is old it remains remarkably vaild today.

We need a grand common enterprise to unite us.
Otherwise “Europe” doesn’t have a reason to exist.

]]> By: Oliver http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/back-to-the-roots/#comment-9023 Oliver Tue, 14 Jun 2005 04:52:04 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1535#comment-9023 Schmidt wants it in the same way that Jose Ortega y Gasset wanted it when he wrote "Rise of the hordes" back in the interbellum when Europe seemed to have lost its way and its moral, now 70-80 years ago. That is not enough. You cannot tell people that they have to reorganize their continent because of something their grat-grandfathers did. We will have to come up with a current, positive raison d'etre. Schmidt wants it in the same way that Jose Ortega y Gasset wanted it when he wrote “Rise of the hordes” back in the interbellum when Europe seemed to have lost its way and its moral, now 70-80 years ago.

That is not enough. You cannot tell people that they have to reorganize their continent because of something their grat-grandfathers did.
We will have to come up with a current, positive raison d’etre.

]]> By: CapTVK http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/back-to-the-roots/#comment-9022 CapTVK Tue, 14 Jun 2005 01:49:51 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1535#comment-9022 Schmidt wants it in the same way that Jose Ortega y Gasset wanted it when he wrote "Rise of the hordes" back in the interbellum when Europe seemed to have lost its way and its moral, now 70-80 years ago. To paraphrase a line from the book: "Once a gitano went to confession. The priest politely asked if he knew about the ten commandments. On that question the gitano answered " I was planning to learn them father, but I heard from someone they were going to be abolished so..." And there we have it, at the end of the day, can people really be bothered to learn and abide by them? Ortega wanted to give people a goal, something to strive for, a common enterprise for Europe. At the time he warned against the lure of fascism and communism and we all know how that turned out. I wonder what the lures are today... Schmidt wants it in the same way that Jose Ortega y Gasset wanted it when he wrote “Rise of the hordes” back in the interbellum when Europe seemed to have lost its way and its moral, now 70-80 years ago.

To paraphrase a line from the book: “Once a gitano went to confession. The priest politely asked if he knew about the ten commandments. On that question the gitano answered ” I was planning to learn them father, but I heard from someone they were going to be abolished so…”

And there we have it, at the end of the day, can people really be bothered to learn and abide by them?

Ortega wanted to give people a goal, something to strive for, a common enterprise for Europe. At the time he warned against the lure of fascism and communism and we all know how that turned out.

I wonder what the lures are today…

]]> By: Oliver http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/back-to-the-roots/#comment-9021 Oliver Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:59:03 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1535#comment-9021 Instead, all the member states must identify their own ailments and draw their own consequences. vs. The coming experience of increasing helplessness of smaller and medium-sized nations acting alone will increasingly convince their citizens of the need for the Union ---- Now what is it? As much as I admire Schmidt, he wants to have it both ways here. Instead, all the member states must identify their own ailments and draw their own consequences.

vs.

The coming experience of increasing helplessness of smaller and medium-sized nations acting alone will increasingly convince their citizens of the need for the Union

—-

Now what is it? As much as I admire Schmidt, he wants to have it both ways here.

]]> By: Bob B http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/back-to-the-roots/#comment-9020 Bob B Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:49:55 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1535#comment-9020 Sorry - typo: the author's name is John Ardgh, and not Argh. Sorry - typo: the author’s name is John Ardgh, and not Argh.

]]> By: Bob B http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/back-to-the-roots/#comment-9019 Bob B Tue, 14 Jun 2005 00:47:41 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1535#comment-9019 Tobias - I suspect part of it is that Brits are far more likely to holiday in Spain or France than in Germany. With that and regular repeats of WW2 movies, stereotypical notions tend to get preserved. Let me ask, what books about Germany and current affairs in Germany since WW2 in English text would you recommend? I've no idea what your opinion about this suggestion but one highly readable book I rather liked was John Argh: Germany and the Germans (Penguin Books, 1996). It is rather out of date now and no revised edition seems to be in sight but I don't know of an equally appealing alternative so your recommendations would certainly be appreciated by me, at least. Suggestions from others here would also be welcome. Btw John Ardgh has also written a series of engaging books about France, of which the most recent manifestation is: France in the New Century (Penguin Books, 2000). Tobias - I suspect part of it is that Brits are far more likely to holiday in Spain or France than in Germany. With that and regular repeats of WW2 movies, stereotypical notions tend to get preserved. Let me ask, what books about Germany and current affairs in Germany since WW2 in English text would you recommend?

I’ve no idea what your opinion about this suggestion but one highly readable book I rather liked was John Argh: Germany and the Germans (Penguin Books, 1996). It is rather out of date now and no revised edition seems to be in sight but I don’t know of an equally appealing alternative so your recommendations would certainly be appreciated by me, at least. Suggestions from others here would also be welcome.

Btw John Ardgh has also written a series of engaging books about France, of which the most recent manifestation is: France in the New Century (Penguin Books, 2000).

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