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	<title>Comments on: The damage done to Britain</title>
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	<pubDate>Sat, 10 Jan 2009 01:38:45 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: c</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/terrorism/the-damage-done-to-britain/#comment-9875</link>
		<dc:creator>c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 06:50:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1734#comment-9875</guid>
		<description>That nobody talks about it doesn't mean it isn't important.
As everybody knows this has nothing to do with Iraq and so nobody talks about when the UK will retreat.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>That nobody talks about it doesn&#8217;t mean it isn&#8217;t important.<br />
As everybody knows this has nothing to do with Iraq and so nobody talks about when the UK will retreat.</p>
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		<title>By: Rupert</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/terrorism/the-damage-done-to-britain/#comment-9874</link>
		<dc:creator>Rupert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 18 Jul 2005 04:55:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1734#comment-9874</guid>
		<description>However, my impression from reading much of the huge press coverage of the London bombing and about suicide bombers in general is that there has been remarkably little focus on the particular Yorkshire context from which three of the four bombers came

Remarkably?  Look Bob, considering how much you keep repeatedly pushing this tripe about the 'social context of Yorkshire' in *every single thread*, does it ever occur to you that the lack of focus is because no one buys it?  Are you the prison warden or something?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>However, my impression from reading much of the huge press coverage of the London bombing and about suicide bombers in general is that there has been remarkably little focus on the particular Yorkshire context from which three of the four bombers came</p>
<p>Remarkably?  Look Bob, considering how much you keep repeatedly pushing this tripe about the &#8217;social context of Yorkshire&#8217; in *every single thread*, does it ever occur to you that the lack of focus is because no one buys it?  Are you the prison warden or something?</p>
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		<title>By: c</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/terrorism/the-damage-done-to-britain/#comment-9873</link>
		<dc:creator>c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jul 2005 22:32:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1734#comment-9873</guid>
		<description>Paki's are the stereotypically Muslim ethnic group in Britain.

Also a retreat from Iraq is not giving in to terrorisme because there is no 'causal link'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Paki&#8217;s are the stereotypically Muslim ethnic group in Britain.</p>
<p>Also a retreat from Iraq is not giving in to terrorisme because there is no &#8216;causal link&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/terrorism/the-damage-done-to-britain/#comment-9872</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jul 2005 16:06:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1734#comment-9872</guid>
		<description>This long analysis in Wednesday's FT of the radical Muslim fringe in Britain offers illuminating and worrying insights:

"Suicide attacks on London?s transport system a week ago by young Muslims who were born and grew up in Britain are prompting soul-searching inside and outside Britain?s Muslim community. The willingness of a few young men from Yorkshire to blow up their fellow citizens in their own capital - more than a tenth of whose population is itself Muslim - has opened up a debate that may produce far-reaching policy and other changes. . . "
http://news.ft.com/cms/s/5acd0294-f3d1-11d9-af32-00000e2511c8.html

The polling results reported therein are a special concern as these give an indication of the extent to which the Muslim community in Britain feels alienated from the mainstream culture.

However, my impression from reading much of the huge press coverage of the London bombing and about suicide bombers in general is that there has been remarkably little focus on the particular Yorkshire context from which three of the four bombers came. In addition to the celebrity status accorded to Guy Fawkes in Yorkshire - of which the bombers were likely to be aware - there is also this recent judgement of an employment tribunal relating to: "A culture of victimisation inside Britain's prisons . . . "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/file_on_4/4672235.stm

Those unfamiliar with the local geography need to know that the Wakefield prison referred to in the tribunal case is about 10 miles (or 16 Kms) south of the Leeds suburbs where the bombers lived.

Connections between the London bombings and the Iraq war certainly feature in the emerging political debate:

"Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy has stated that, while he sees no 'causal link' between the Iraq conflict and the London attacks: 'We have to recognise the occupation of Iraq by the multinational force itself contributes to the insurgency and attracts those from abroad who see the opportunity to spread violent fundamentalism.' . . Former Labour minister Clare Short, who resigned over the war, had told the committee in evidence that the invasion had led to a 'very large' number of recruits to the al-Qaeda network. . . "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4681735.stm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This long analysis in Wednesday&#8217;s FT of the radical Muslim fringe in Britain offers illuminating and worrying insights:</p>
<p>&#8220;Suicide attacks on London?s transport system a week ago by young Muslims who were born and grew up in Britain are prompting soul-searching inside and outside Britain?s Muslim community. The willingness of a few young men from Yorkshire to blow up their fellow citizens in their own capital - more than a tenth of whose population is itself Muslim - has opened up a debate that may produce far-reaching policy and other changes. . . &#8221;<br />
<a href="http://news.ft.com/cms/s/5acd0294-f3d1-11d9-af32-00000e2511c8.html" rel="nofollow">http://news.ft.com/cms/s/5acd0294-f3d1-11d9-af32-00000e2511c8.html</a></p>
<p>The polling results reported therein are a special concern as these give an indication of the extent to which the Muslim community in Britain feels alienated from the mainstream culture.</p>
<p>However, my impression from reading much of the huge press coverage of the London bombing and about suicide bombers in general is that there has been remarkably little focus on the particular Yorkshire context from which three of the four bombers came. In addition to the celebrity status accorded to Guy Fawkes in Yorkshire - of which the bombers were likely to be aware - there is also this recent judgement of an employment tribunal relating to: &#8220;A culture of victimisation inside Britain&#8217;s prisons . . . &#8221;<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/file_on_4/4672235.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/file_on_4/4672235.stm</a></p>
<p>Those unfamiliar with the local geography need to know that the Wakefield prison referred to in the tribunal case is about 10 miles (or 16 Kms) south of the Leeds suburbs where the bombers lived.</p>
<p>Connections between the London bombings and the Iraq war certainly feature in the emerging political debate:</p>
<p>&#8220;Liberal Democrat leader Charles Kennedy has stated that, while he sees no &#8216;causal link&#8217; between the Iraq conflict and the London attacks: &#8216;We have to recognise the occupation of Iraq by the multinational force itself contributes to the insurgency and attracts those from abroad who see the opportunity to spread violent fundamentalism.&#8217; . . Former Labour minister Clare Short, who resigned over the war, had told the committee in evidence that the invasion had led to a &#8216;very large&#8217; number of recruits to the al-Qaeda network. . . &#8221;<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4681735.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/4681735.stm</a></p>
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		<title>By: jeet</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/terrorism/the-damage-done-to-britain/#comment-9871</link>
		<dc:creator>jeet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jul 2005 12:39:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1734#comment-9871</guid>
		<description>"the bombers weren?t even all from stereotypically Muslim ethnic groups - one was a Jamaican who may not even have been openly Muslim."

Pakistanis aren't a stereotypically Muslim ethnic group?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;the bombers weren?t even all from stereotypically Muslim ethnic groups - one was a Jamaican who may not even have been openly Muslim.&#8221;</p>
<p>Pakistanis aren&#8217;t a stereotypically Muslim ethnic group?</p>
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		<title>By: c</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/terrorism/the-damage-done-to-britain/#comment-9870</link>
		<dc:creator>c</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 Jul 2005 08:08:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1734#comment-9870</guid>
		<description>Van Gogh was internal so Britain isn't exactly the first.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Van Gogh was internal so Britain isn&#8217;t exactly the first.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/terrorism/the-damage-done-to-britain/#comment-9869</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2005 22:07:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1734#comment-9869</guid>
		<description>Antoni: "Yorkshire is part of the Danelaw,isn't it? If so, that explains everything. :D"

You are absolutely right, of course. :D

Yorkshire tourist websites actually give star billing to Guy Fawkes who was the explosives expert in the plot to blow up the Houses of Parliament in 1605 - as you can see:
http://www.uk-yorkshireexplore.co.uk/
http://www.yorkshirevisitor.com/exec/120958/6542/PROFILE=

According to this BBC website: "In a report published in the New Civil Engineer, Dr Alford calculated that Fawkes and his fellow conspirators went for an overkill, filling the cellar beneath the House of Lords with 25 times the explosive necessary to bring the building down. Guy Fawkes was no amateur in explosives. Before he became a professional plotter, he worked in the army, where his job was to pack gunpowder. Therefore if he used 25 times too much gunpowder, maybe it was no accident."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3240135.stm</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Antoni: &#8220;Yorkshire is part of the Danelaw,isn&#8217;t it? If so, that explains everything. :D&#8221;</p>
<p>You are absolutely right, of course. <img src='http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Yorkshire tourist websites actually give star billing to Guy Fawkes who was the explosives expert in the plot to blow up the Houses of Parliament in 1605 - as you can see:<br />
<a href="http://www.uk-yorkshireexplore.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">http://www.uk-yorkshireexplore.co.uk/</a><br />
<a href="http://www.yorkshirevisitor.com/exec/120958/6542/PROFILE=" rel="nofollow">http://www.yorkshirevisitor.com/exec/120958/6542/PROFILE=</a></p>
<p>According to this BBC website: &#8220;In a report published in the New Civil Engineer, Dr Alford calculated that Fawkes and his fellow conspirators went for an overkill, filling the cellar beneath the House of Lords with 25 times the explosive necessary to bring the building down. Guy Fawkes was no amateur in explosives. Before he became a professional plotter, he worked in the army, where his job was to pack gunpowder. Therefore if he used 25 times too much gunpowder, maybe it was no accident.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3240135.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3240135.stm</a></p>
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		<title>By: Antoni Jaume</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/terrorism/the-damage-done-to-britain/#comment-9868</link>
		<dc:creator>Antoni Jaume</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2005 17:57:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1734#comment-9868</guid>
		<description>Yorkshire is part of the Danelaw,isn't it? 

If so, that explains everything. :D

DSW</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yorkshire is part of the Danelaw,isn&#8217;t it? </p>
<p>If so, that explains everything. <img src='http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
DSW</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/terrorism/the-damage-done-to-britain/#comment-9867</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:11:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1734#comment-9867</guid>
		<description>@ Scott

The biggest menace seems to be coming from organised right-wing extremist groups such as the Leeds Service Crew mentioned in this article.

"Eight people were arrested for public order offences at the Broadway pub in Beeston on Thursday night. The pub is half a mile from the home of the suicide bomber Shahzad Tanweer. A nearby community centre and bookshop were also regular meeting places for two of the other bombers, Mohammed Siddique Khan and Hasib Hussain. Police surrounded the pub where members of a gang called the Leeds Service Crew had assembled around 90 supporters. Primarily a vehicle for football hooligans, the Service Crew has been active in Leeds since the 1970s. Police fear the far right could be about to exploit the shock felt in Leeds over the bombings."

Personally I hope that if there is to be a new offence of 'incitment to terrorism' it will be framed in such a way as to also cover those groups whose activities are intentionally directed to provoking the muslim community.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Scott</p>
<p>The biggest menace seems to be coming from organised right-wing extremist groups such as the Leeds Service Crew mentioned in this article.</p>
<p>&#8220;Eight people were arrested for public order offences at the Broadway pub in Beeston on Thursday night. The pub is half a mile from the home of the suicide bomber Shahzad Tanweer. A nearby community centre and bookshop were also regular meeting places for two of the other bombers, Mohammed Siddique Khan and Hasib Hussain. Police surrounded the pub where members of a gang called the Leeds Service Crew had assembled around 90 supporters. Primarily a vehicle for football hooligans, the Service Crew has been active in Leeds since the 1970s. Police fear the far right could be about to exploit the shock felt in Leeds over the bombings.&#8221;</p>
<p>Personally I hope that if there is to be a new offence of &#8216;incitment to terrorism&#8217; it will be framed in such a way as to also cover those groups whose activities are intentionally directed to provoking the muslim community.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob B</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/terrorism/the-damage-done-to-britain/#comment-9866</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob B</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 16 Jul 2005 14:52:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1734#comment-9866</guid>
		<description>Scott - On this I cannot regard the present situation as anything like as novel as you suggest. What's new?

"An Egyptian scientist working at one of the region's top universities [Leeds] is wanted in connection with the London terror attacks. . . A Yorkshire Forward spokesman said: 'We can confirm that Dr Magdy Einashar was awarded a Bioscience Yorkshire Enterprise Fellowship.'"
http://www.ypn.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&#038;ArticleID=1086386

"A left-wing academic, unmasked as a spy in the unfolding Cold War scandal, has denied acting illegally or betraying his country. Vic Allen, 77, a former leading member of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND), said he had 'no regrets' over providing information to the East German Stasi secret police. The retired Leeds University professor, from Keighley, North Yorkshire, said he did pass on information about CND's activities. But he said he considered that perfectly legitimate because he belonged to a pro-Soviet, pro-East German faction of the group. . . The allegations come only 24 hours after the BBC unmasked Hull University lecturer Robin Pearson as a former Stasi agent."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/09/99/britain_betrayed/451366.stm

"Prof Allen was an ally of Arthur Scargill during the 1984-85 miners' strike. In 1987 he published a book, The Russians Are Coming. His pro-Soviet views were well known."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,271697,00.html

"Guy Fawkes could have changed the face of London if his 1605 plot had not been foiled, explosion experts have said. . . "
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3240135.stm

Guy Fawkes also came from Yorkshire.

That bomb plot in 1605 followed the attempted invasion of England in 1588 by the Spanish Armada, duly sanctified by a commission from the Pope at the time to restore Catholicism to England, and prior to that the mercifully short reign of Mary Tudor (1553-8) during which at least 287 members of the Church of England were burned to death in public for their supposedly heretical Protestant faith - see: John Guy: Tudor England (OUP 1988).

Nevertheless, catholics in Britain were finally accorded full citizenship rights by the passage of the Catholic Emancipation Act in 1829. So far as I can tell, catholics are not presently regarded as a serious subversive threat in most parts of Britain nowadays.

On this evidence, the common factor appears to be Yorkshire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott - On this I cannot regard the present situation as anything like as novel as you suggest. What&#8217;s new?</p>
<p>&#8220;An Egyptian scientist working at one of the region&#8217;s top universities [Leeds] is wanted in connection with the London terror attacks. . . A Yorkshire Forward spokesman said: &#8216;We can confirm that Dr Magdy Einashar was awarded a Bioscience Yorkshire Enterprise Fellowship.&#8217;&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.ypn.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&#038;ArticleID=1086386" rel="nofollow">http://www.ypn.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=55&#038;ArticleID=1086386</a></p>
<p>&#8220;A left-wing academic, unmasked as a spy in the unfolding Cold War scandal, has denied acting illegally or betraying his country. Vic Allen, 77, a former leading member of the Campaign for Nuclear Disarmament (CND), said he had &#8216;no regrets&#8217; over providing information to the East German Stasi secret police. The retired Leeds University professor, from Keighley, North Yorkshire, said he did pass on information about CND&#8217;s activities. But he said he considered that perfectly legitimate because he belonged to a pro-Soviet, pro-East German faction of the group. . . The allegations come only 24 hours after the BBC unmasked Hull University lecturer Robin Pearson as a former Stasi agent.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/09/99/britain_betrayed/451366.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/special_report/1999/09/99/britain_betrayed/451366.stm</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Prof Allen was an ally of Arthur Scargill during the 1984-85 miners&#8217; strike. In 1987 he published a book, The Russians Are Coming. His pro-Soviet views were well known.&#8221;<br />
<a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,271697,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/story/0,3604,271697,00.html</a></p>
<p>&#8220;Guy Fawkes could have changed the face of London if his 1605 plot had not been foiled, explosion experts have said. . . &#8221;<br />
<a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3240135.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/3240135.stm</a></p>
<p>Guy Fawkes also came from Yorkshire.</p>
<p>That bomb plot in 1605 followed the attempted invasion of England in 1588 by the Spanish Armada, duly sanctified by a commission from the Pope at the time to restore Catholicism to England, and prior to that the mercifully short reign of Mary Tudor (1553-8) during which at least 287 members of the Church of England were burned to death in public for their supposedly heretical Protestant faith - see: John Guy: Tudor England (OUP 1988).</p>
<p>Nevertheless, catholics in Britain were finally accorded full citizenship rights by the passage of the Catholic Emancipation Act in 1829. So far as I can tell, catholics are not presently regarded as a serious subversive threat in most parts of Britain nowadays.</p>
<p>On this evidence, the common factor appears to be Yorkshire.</p>
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