I’m proud of my city and its inhabitants, of all hues.

Really? Well, I?m proud of my city too, against all the ignorance of the bigoted, bourgeois southerner in places like Finchley (whatever that is).

And what true value can a man place upon the lives of his fellow Londoners - of whom he claims to be so proud - if he believes that their mass murder does not constitute “real nastyness, bigotry and violence”?

It?s our job to convince our immigrants that they?re choosing the wrong side, that being a British citizen is something they?ve chosen and want, and that it takes precedence over the Ummah. We need to help them feel that religion is a private matter and has a different role in life here. If they feel we want them out, if they feel confirmed as aliens, or worse, despised, they will turn inwards to an old identity. That?s just one reason why I disagree with Edward about multiculturalism. It doesn?t stress a common pride sufficiently.

On the tube home tonight, I was aware of giving every Asian or Arab looking person a very thorough and hostile once-over, and I wondered what it must feel like to be seen as a potential enemy. The more confident will respond with dignity, politeness, an assertion of their version of Britishness. It?s the failures and misfits that are the problem, and the only way we can keep an eye on them is with the help of their own community.

This is not an uprising ? it?s not even the Italian Red Brigades, let alone the IRA. It?s a few fanatics manipulating the social and personal, not religious, discontent of those whose sense of worth is otherwise low. In that sense, there is indeed a parallel with Hamas’ use of children.

I am as intolerant as you are towards any British citizen who attempts to justify these murders in terms of what is happening in Iraq or Palestine, not because there is no moral case for such equivalence, but because part of being British is that you do not kill other Brits, or assist their murderers. This is the message we have to hammer home. I believe and hope we have the capacity to do so.

Bush & Blair’s PE-2 ‘Team Iraq’(Al Qaeda) Attacks London
http://www.tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=786&start=0&postdays=0&postorder=asc&highlight=>

A revisit of this exceptionally excellent BBC documentary on Bush’s Al Qaeda boogeyman, of which Bush and Blair’s PE-2 ‘Team Iraq’ is an extension –
try and view at least Part 3, only one hour, revealing the current deceptions and illusions for 9/11 and the Iraq war.

Bush’s Al Qaeda subterfuge — BBC: The Power of Nightmares
http://tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=2932#2932_

Bush and Blair’s PE-2 ‘Team Iraq’ extension of Al Qaeda boogeyman
http://www.tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=2996#2996

British Seek Moroccan Man in London Attack Investigation
http://www.tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&p=2999#2999

Moroccan terrorism links yet Bush aids illegal Moroccans
http://www.tomflocco.com/modules.php?name=Forums&file=viewtopic&t=452

Share and forward and ask everyone to share and forward as well — bypass the conspiratorial traitors in the ‘prostituted’ LMSM.
_ _ _

OrlandoMary
Illegally Fired
Officially Designated
Federal Whistlebower
http://www.maryschneider.us

And this doesn’t strike you as being a major problem? Do you have any good reason whatsoever to believe they aren’t being utterly sincere in stating their support for the man and his methods?

“That doesn?t mean they want to see their kids blowing up their neighbours, it?s more akin to supporting Pakistan in a Test Match.”

No, it doesn’t mean they want to see their own kids doing it, but it doesn’t mean they’d mind seeing other people’s kids doing it, preferably in neighborhoods other than theirs. In this respect they’re not an iota different from the leaders of organizations like Hamas and Islamic Jihad, who also have a marked propensity for viewing other people’s offspring as being better jihad fodder than their own.

The concern for a “backlash” against Muslims is well-meaning but overwrought. What we really ought to be concerned with is the existence of vast* reservoirs of support for violence in the name of religion amongst local Muslim populations.

Yes, “vast” is the right word to use when anything from 10-30% of resident Muslims see nothing wrong with terrorism in the name of religion, even if they claim they don’t want to see the same thing happen in their host countries (then again, they would say that, wouldn’t they?)

OK, vast majority of Muslims are peace-loving law-abiding nice folks, all right… But what about the minority?

So the next time the BNP tries to threaten a Mosque, I?d like to see the police drop the even-handedness for once and give the racists a good kicking. Without getting enough of the Muslim community firmly on our side ? as Brits, Frenchmen, Spaniards ? we are not going to know who the weirdo loners are, who is speaking about recruitment for the cause, whose behaviour has suddenly changed.

We need to address our Islamic immigrants with respect, as fellow citizens. We need to make them feel part of our culture and tell them to be vigilant, because it is their kids who are the target of the organizers of these attacks. We need our press-lords to be told that integration is not a matter of decency anymore, but of pressing national security. And we need to respond to the urgings of the French, Saudi and Egyptian government to stop acting as a haven for North African and other fanatics who approve of cutting little girls throats in the street because of what they are wearing. Our conception of the balance between the operational interests and abilities of the secret intelligence services and the police in this matter is flawed.

I have thought about that somewhat. Civil liberties are dangerously curtailed even now. Yet the side which has bloody bodies in its armory of arguments is likely to win in the long run. There is a small but real danger of imposing “marial law lite”.
Therefore I would propose to take the government be taken by its word. If this is an emergency, it should be dealt with as such. It is better that an exceptional emergency were officially recognised and exceptional laws of temporally limited validity introduced rather than normal civil liberties watered down.
ID cards are coming to stay already. It is better to have a short hard crackdown than a prolonged erosion.

I could be wrong, but I thought at the time (and I think now) that this was overstated. I heard few if any credible reports of attacks on Muslims. Of course, any bigoted attack on anybody anywhere is an outrage, so if it happened once in the Midwest, it happened one too many times.

As for the feeling of community… man oh man, how quickly we forget. The days after 9/11 were the days when it felt the greatest to be an American.

David, you do realize that Muslims aren’t a race, right? Hence, a poor use of words.

Peter Bergen has an interesting article in the New York Times called ‘Our Ally, Our Problem’ which sums up nicely Enland’s problematic Muslims:

“Eight out of 10 believe that the war on terrorism is a war on Islam, while a poll conducted last year, under the auspices of the Guardian newspaper, found a surprising 13 percent who said that further attacks by Al Qaeda or a similar organization on the United States would be justified
.
.
Last year a British government report estimated that between 10,000 and 15,000 British Muslims are supporters of Al Qaeda or related groups. The estimate was based on intelligence, opinion polls and a report that 10,000 Muslims attended a 2003 conference held by Hizb ut-Tahrir, described by the Home Office as a “structured extremist organization.” British authorities believe that between 300 and 600 British citizens were trained in Qaeda and Taliban camps in Afghanistan. For this reason, and because of Britain’s relatively permissive asylum laws, Arab militants living in London sometimes jokingly refer to their hometown as Londonistan.”( apologies for the long quote )

I don’t think the problem is immigration per se. I think you’ll find that the people who perpetrated these bombings are going to be English born and bred, or at least a signifigant majority. And if that’s true, then it begs the question What is the problem? But no worries, once that absurd Hatred Law is passed, no real avenues will exist to explore the real problem.