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	<title>Comments on: Thank God for government by our betters</title>
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	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 23:16:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/thank-god-for-government-by-our-betters/#comment-581</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2003 09:27:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=53#comment-581</guid>
		<description>Markku - Your assessment of the Labour Party is broadly correct IMO. There have always been a few neo-Marxists in the Party but it was never much influenced by Marxism, most likely because we Brits have an aversion to encompassing political theory of the variety espoused by French intellectuals. Disraeli encapsulated this well: "Read no history; read only biography for that is life without theory." He was a Conservative but that reflects a British trait. The term "intellectual(s)" has distinctly pejorative overtones in Britain.

Curiously, in fact we have a strong tradition of political theorising with Locke, Hobbes, Edmund Burke and JS Mill and Marx wrote his turgid Das Kapital sitting in the British Museum Library while living off subventions from Engels after being hounded out of mainland Europe in 1848. It might have saved a lot of misery in the 20th century had he read JS Mill instead. Another oddity is that from 1935 through 1976, the three Labour leaders in that period had each been university teachers and so were entirely able to invoke political theory but chose not to.

You are right too about the social class thing. For reasons I'm not sure anyone understands, we Brits tend to be strong on social class consciousness. Just how much I came to realise on visiting Japan. The Japanese have a liking for polls and surveys defining their national character and these regularly showed c. 90% of Japanese identify themselves as "middle class". In contrast, a sizeable slice of Britain's population is apt to feel insulted if called middle class.

The credit for Modernising the Labour party probably belongs to a group of people among whom Blair was (rightly) judged to be the most electable. Looking back, habits of rewriting history and bending the facts were displayed early on. And the recent hiatus over the death of Dr Kelly probably owes something IMO to the use New Labour made of leaks from government when they were in opposition. Mindful of the damage that leaks can do to the credibility of a government, New Labour in power has been building in safeguards to stop the same thing happening to them.

The print edition of Monday's Financial Times has a front page report of new measures being proposed by the Blair government to politicise the civil service by appointing placemen to head the administration in government departments. Understandably, the civil service is opposed although, of course, that is the regular practice in America. In France, both political leaders and the heads of government departments are usually all graduates of Ecole Nationale d'Administration, which perhaps helps to ensure a unity and continuity of perspective and purpose that other nation states lack. In Japan, there is a tradition of senior bureaucrats on retirement moving into the ruling party, the LDP, which is seldom out of government and that doubtless smooths over potential frictions between politicians and the civil service.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Markku - Your assessment of the Labour Party is broadly correct IMO. There have always been a few neo-Marxists in the Party but it was never much influenced by Marxism, most likely because we Brits have an aversion to encompassing political theory of the variety espoused by French intellectuals. Disraeli encapsulated this well: &#8220;Read no history; read only biography for that is life without theory.&#8221; He was a Conservative but that reflects a British trait. The term &#8220;intellectual(s)&#8221; has distinctly pejorative overtones in Britain.</p>
<p>Curiously, in fact we have a strong tradition of political theorising with Locke, Hobbes, Edmund Burke and JS Mill and Marx wrote his turgid Das Kapital sitting in the British Museum Library while living off subventions from Engels after being hounded out of mainland Europe in 1848. It might have saved a lot of misery in the 20th century had he read JS Mill instead. Another oddity is that from 1935 through 1976, the three Labour leaders in that period had each been university teachers and so were entirely able to invoke political theory but chose not to.</p>
<p>You are right too about the social class thing. For reasons I&#8217;m not sure anyone understands, we Brits tend to be strong on social class consciousness. Just how much I came to realise on visiting Japan. The Japanese have a liking for polls and surveys defining their national character and these regularly showed c. 90% of Japanese identify themselves as &#8220;middle class&#8221;. In contrast, a sizeable slice of Britain&#8217;s population is apt to feel insulted if called middle class.</p>
<p>The credit for Modernising the Labour party probably belongs to a group of people among whom Blair was (rightly) judged to be the most electable. Looking back, habits of rewriting history and bending the facts were displayed early on. And the recent hiatus over the death of Dr Kelly probably owes something IMO to the use New Labour made of leaks from government when they were in opposition. Mindful of the damage that leaks can do to the credibility of a government, New Labour in power has been building in safeguards to stop the same thing happening to them.</p>
<p>The print edition of Monday&#8217;s Financial Times has a front page report of new measures being proposed by the Blair government to politicise the civil service by appointing placemen to head the administration in government departments. Understandably, the civil service is opposed although, of course, that is the regular practice in America. In France, both political leaders and the heads of government departments are usually all graduates of Ecole Nationale d&#8217;Administration, which perhaps helps to ensure a unity and continuity of perspective and purpose that other nation states lack. In Japan, there is a tradition of senior bureaucrats on retirement moving into the ruling party, the LDP, which is seldom out of government and that doubtless smooths over potential frictions between politicians and the civil service.</p>
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		<title>By: Markku Nordstr?m</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/thank-god-for-government-by-our-betters/#comment-580</link>
		<dc:creator>Markku Nordstr?m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2003 07:39:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=53#comment-580</guid>
		<description>Bob:  thanks for the links.  It seems to me that Tam Dalyell represents the way the Labour Party used to be.

I don't know what to think of Tony Blair myself.  I'm only amazed to find him supporting the US.  Frankly I always thought he was a hindrance for Bush, - perhaps Europe's best secret weapon against the US, considering he was Labour...

The thing that strikes me about the pre-Blair Labour Party, when comparing it to left-wing movements in other parts of the developed world, was that it was the party most embittered by class divisions.  While the French Marxists could generate a fascinating body of theory attempting to deconstruct capitalism, the British Labour Party was still the party of grumbling proletarians muttering into their pints of beer at night, after spending long days in the coal mines, - yet still accepting this as their social lot.  After the Thatcherite revolution, with all its wrenching socio-economic changes, the Labour Party was forced to adapt, and I always thought that Tony Blair was a rather appropriate leader for such a change.

Tony Blair's status as a "Big Con" to me sounds like the kind of treatment Clinton (whom I supported, by the way) got from the far-right Republicans.

Please understand that I write as a complete outsider (though I've visited Britain often, as I have friends, and Finnish-Indian relatives living there), so I'm not even going to pretend that I have an informed opinion here.  I'm just offering it for the sake of an outside perspective.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bob:  thanks for the links.  It seems to me that Tam Dalyell represents the way the Labour Party used to be.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what to think of Tony Blair myself.  I&#8217;m only amazed to find him supporting the US.  Frankly I always thought he was a hindrance for Bush, - perhaps Europe&#8217;s best secret weapon against the US, considering he was Labour&#8230;</p>
<p>The thing that strikes me about the pre-Blair Labour Party, when comparing it to left-wing movements in other parts of the developed world, was that it was the party most embittered by class divisions.  While the French Marxists could generate a fascinating body of theory attempting to deconstruct capitalism, the British Labour Party was still the party of grumbling proletarians muttering into their pints of beer at night, after spending long days in the coal mines, - yet still accepting this as their social lot.  After the Thatcherite revolution, with all its wrenching socio-economic changes, the Labour Party was forced to adapt, and I always thought that Tony Blair was a rather appropriate leader for such a change.</p>
<p>Tony Blair&#8217;s status as a &#8220;Big Con&#8221; to me sounds like the kind of treatment Clinton (whom I supported, by the way) got from the far-right Republicans.</p>
<p>Please understand that I write as a complete outsider (though I&#8217;ve visited Britain often, as I have friends, and Finnish-Indian relatives living there), so I&#8217;m not even going to pretend that I have an informed opinion here.  I&#8217;m just offering it for the sake of an outside perspective.</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/thank-god-for-government-by-our-betters/#comment-579</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2003 05:08:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=53#comment-579</guid>
		<description>"surely rising inequality in incomes is proof the entrepeneurialism can thrive in Europe [ or maybe it's just a sign that senior management is awarding itself inappropriate pay rises, if profitability is falling."

Only the benighted few will begrudge rewards commensurate with commercial success. What sticks in the throats of most is rewarding commerical failures. The Trade and Industry select committee has just reported on: Rewards for Failure - at: http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmtrdind/914/914.pdf

"The committee investigated rewards for failure following the controversy over large payments to Lord Simpson and John Mayo of Marconi." - from press report at: http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4762483-103676,00.html and

Who is Lord Simpson? He was awarded awarded a life peerage in 1997 by Tony Blair and takes the Labour whip in the House of Lords. More info at: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/newsmakers/1527551.stm

As said: Blair's New Labour = Big Con</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;surely rising inequality in incomes is proof the entrepeneurialism can thrive in Europe [ or maybe it&#8217;s just a sign that senior management is awarding itself inappropriate pay rises, if profitability is falling.&#8221;</p>
<p>Only the benighted few will begrudge rewards commensurate with commercial success. What sticks in the throats of most is rewarding commerical failures. The Trade and Industry select committee has just reported on: Rewards for Failure - at: <a href="http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmtrdind/914/914.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/cm200203/cmselect/cmtrdind/914/914.pdf</a></p>
<p>&#8220;The committee investigated rewards for failure following the controversy over large payments to Lord Simpson and John Mayo of Marconi.&#8221; - from press report at: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4762483-103676,00.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/print/0,3858,4762483-103676,00.html</a> and</p>
<p>Who is Lord Simpson? He was awarded awarded a life peerage in 1997 by Tony Blair and takes the Labour whip in the House of Lords. More info at: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/newsmakers/1527551.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/in_depth/uk/2000/newsmakers/1527551.stm</a></p>
<p>As said: Blair&#8217;s New Labour = Big Con</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/thank-god-for-government-by-our-betters/#comment-578</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:10:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=53#comment-578</guid>
		<description>Markku,

"Based on your earlier posts, you seem to be adverse to Tony Blair's government."

I share the view of the longest serving Member of Parliament: http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/politics.cfm?id=619072002

"I'm wondering what options you support from the other political contenders?"

I last belonged to a political party in 1976. Since then I've voted Conservative, Labour Social Democrat and Liberal-Democrat. Few seem to realise that political activists are an extreme minority. In Britain, the total membership of all the mainstream political parties is about three-quarters of a million in a total adult population of 44 million. The lowest estimate of the percentage of floating voters in British elections I've come across is 20% of the electorate - there are over 10 times more floating voters than political activists.

From long experience, anyone posting criticism of Blair's government is apt to get painted a xenophobic fascist or senile or worse and their computer gets hacked - and they call it democracy. For those who search, there is plenty of evidence that Blair's government is tinged with corruption. This is what Dr John Reid said as Party chairman when asked about a donation to the Party by the publisher of top-shelf porn magazines: "If you are asking if we are going to sit in moral judgment, in political judgment, on those who wish to contribute to the Labour party, then the answer to that is no." - from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2357617.stm

An ombudsman was appointed to rein back political corruption and this is what happens: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3054675.stm

But there is much more, believe me. Rhetoric about "modernisation" and "our souls" is a good cover.

Btw on the record of Blair's government on income distribution, try: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3017042.stm

Blair's New Labour = Big Con</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Markku,</p>
<p>&#8220;Based on your earlier posts, you seem to be adverse to Tony Blair&#8217;s government.&#8221;</p>
<p>I share the view of the longest serving Member of Parliament: <a href="http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/politics.cfm?id=619072002" rel="nofollow">http://www.thescotsman.co.uk/politics.cfm?id=619072002</a></p>
<p>&#8220;I&#8217;m wondering what options you support from the other political contenders?&#8221;</p>
<p>I last belonged to a political party in 1976. Since then I&#8217;ve voted Conservative, Labour Social Democrat and Liberal-Democrat. Few seem to realise that political activists are an extreme minority. In Britain, the total membership of all the mainstream political parties is about three-quarters of a million in a total adult population of 44 million. The lowest estimate of the percentage of floating voters in British elections I&#8217;ve come across is 20% of the electorate - there are over 10 times more floating voters than political activists.</p>
<p>From long experience, anyone posting criticism of Blair&#8217;s government is apt to get painted a xenophobic fascist or senile or worse and their computer gets hacked - and they call it democracy. For those who search, there is plenty of evidence that Blair&#8217;s government is tinged with corruption. This is what Dr John Reid said as Party chairman when asked about a donation to the Party by the publisher of top-shelf porn magazines: &#8220;If you are asking if we are going to sit in moral judgment, in political judgment, on those who wish to contribute to the Labour party, then the answer to that is no.&#8221; - from: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2357617.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/2357617.stm</a></p>
<p>An ombudsman was appointed to rein back political corruption and this is what happens: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3054675.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3054675.stm</a></p>
<p>But there is much more, believe me. Rhetoric about &#8220;modernisation&#8221; and &#8220;our souls&#8221; is a good cover.</p>
<p>Btw on the record of Blair&#8217;s government on income distribution, try: <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3017042.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/3017042.stm</a></p>
<p>Blair&#8217;s New Labour = Big Con</p>
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		<title>By: Marku</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/thank-god-for-government-by-our-betters/#comment-577</link>
		<dc:creator>Marku</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2003 04:06:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=53#comment-577</guid>
		<description>Maarku -  I'm not sure whether there really is a correlation between entrepeneurialism and the welfare state. 

1. Most successful entrepeneurs would have been (or were) successful employees anyway, and welfare would never be a part of their lives. 
2. Despite the classic stories about 'welfare scroungers' , most people who depend on welfare are humiliated to have to use it, and would give anything to move off it into permanent, secure employment.
3. The ultimate upside of this, is of course the layoffs in the US tech sector, where many workers found themselves laid off by entrepeneurs with no severance or benefits and totally dependent on - welfare.  

Bob - Hey! she said it, not me. But surely rising inequality in incomes is proof the entrepeneurialism can thrive in Europe [ or maybe it's just a sign that senior management is awarding itself inappropriate pay rises, if profitability is falling. ]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maarku -  I&#8217;m not sure whether there really is a correlation between entrepeneurialism and the welfare state. </p>
<p>1. Most successful entrepeneurs would have been (or were) successful employees anyway, and welfare would never be a part of their lives.<br />
2. Despite the classic stories about &#8216;welfare scroungers&#8217; , most people who depend on welfare are humiliated to have to use it, and would give anything to move off it into permanent, secure employment.<br />
3. The ultimate upside of this, is of course the layoffs in the US tech sector, where many workers found themselves laid off by entrepeneurs with no severance or benefits and totally dependent on - welfare.  </p>
<p>Bob - Hey! she said it, not me. But surely rising inequality in incomes is proof the entrepeneurialism can thrive in Europe [ or maybe it's just a sign that senior management is awarding itself inappropriate pay rises, if profitability is falling. ]</p>
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		<title>By: Markku Nordstr?m</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/thank-god-for-government-by-our-betters/#comment-576</link>
		<dc:creator>Markku Nordstr?m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:58:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=53#comment-576</guid>
		<description>Mark and Chris K:  I appreciate your points, but I wasn't really referring to paperwork as a main barrier to entry (though, of course, it is).  I was mainly referring to raising capital, taking risks and, most of all, paying taxes.

Either way, interesting to hear about the experiences of others on this blog...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark and Chris K:  I appreciate your points, but I wasn&#8217;t really referring to paperwork as a main barrier to entry (though, of course, it is).  I was mainly referring to raising capital, taking risks and, most of all, paying taxes.</p>
<p>Either way, interesting to hear about the experiences of others on this blog&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Chris K</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/thank-god-for-government-by-our-betters/#comment-575</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris K</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2003 03:03:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=53#comment-575</guid>
		<description>Markku, I will second Mark. I'm in the fine wine trade and I had tons of lenghty discussions with colleages from all over the world. I operate inside the EU (Germany) and all I can tell you is that I pity my US colleages because of the bureaucracy they face (BATF) which totally dwarfs the one I face (German bureacracy mostly). The EU bureaucracy is something I am infinetely thankfull of because it blows away (=overrides) tons of national bureaucracies. Brussels helps entreupreneurs. I cannot in any way endorse the widespread view of the creeping EU bureaucracy. The EU regulations are minimal, simple, transparent and straightforward. It is more difficult to type an order than to fill up EU duty forms. So much for the famed "Brussels Bureaucracy Hell Myth". Bureaucracy in my trade is national: Champagne labeling rules, Sektsteuer, Swedish alkohol laws, British excise duty and so on. And the US states beat them all hands down. Why on earth does it take more paperwork to get California wine into Georgia than into Germany? In my trade US national myths are divorced from reality.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Markku, I will second Mark. I&#8217;m in the fine wine trade and I had tons of lenghty discussions with colleages from all over the world. I operate inside the EU (Germany) and all I can tell you is that I pity my US colleages because of the bureaucracy they face (BATF) which totally dwarfs the one I face (German bureacracy mostly). The EU bureaucracy is something I am infinetely thankfull of because it blows away (=overrides) tons of national bureaucracies. Brussels helps entreupreneurs. I cannot in any way endorse the widespread view of the creeping EU bureaucracy. The EU regulations are minimal, simple, transparent and straightforward. It is more difficult to type an order than to fill up EU duty forms. So much for the famed &#8220;Brussels Bureaucracy Hell Myth&#8221;. Bureaucracy in my trade is national: Champagne labeling rules, Sektsteuer, Swedish alkohol laws, British excise duty and so on. And the US states beat them all hands down. Why on earth does it take more paperwork to get California wine into Georgia than into Germany? In my trade US national myths are divorced from reality.</p>
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		<title>By: Markku Nordstr?m</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/thank-god-for-government-by-our-betters/#comment-574</link>
		<dc:creator>Markku Nordstr?m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2003 02:01:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=53#comment-574</guid>
		<description>Mark:    I take my experience mostly from what I've learned of Finnish and Swedish companies (though I've also worked with British and Italian companies), - operating in perhaps the most thorough social welfare societies in the world.  The fact remains that there is little incentive to open a business in these countries, because of the barriers to entry, and also because of the social responsibility imposed.  Failure in these countries - bankruptcy - often means that you're treated worse than a criminal.  According to Finnish law, for example, the state has the right to strip a person even of their clothes to satisfy debts (the tax authorities usually limit the clothes to luxury items, such as leather or furs).  There are only two things that by law cannot be taken:  eyeglasses, and a person's bed.  So that leaves the bankrupt person outside, naked, in bed, but at least able to see...

In these conditions, it becomes much easier to let others take the risks... and freeload on top of their efforts, by taxing their businesses to the max.

Anybody who opens a business can plough through paperwork, but things become even more complicated when the entrepreneur seeks capital.  I agree with you on the fact that an employer should take care of their employees, - but mainly because it makes good business sense.  However, I don't agree that a company should be held unduly responsible for non-employees, outside the company, in the society at large... though this is a question of degree.

Anyway, I don't want to expand the discussion too widely, as it seems that this would mainly become a long exercise in political rhetoric, but I think you underestimate how much the social welfare state dampens the entrepreneurial spirit.  When life is comfortable, people basically stop trying harder.  

Bob:  interesting statistics.  I wonder how it all portends for the future.  
Based on your earlier posts, you seem to be adverse to Tony Blair's government.  I'm wondering what options you support from the other political contenders?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark:    I take my experience mostly from what I&#8217;ve learned of Finnish and Swedish companies (though I&#8217;ve also worked with British and Italian companies), - operating in perhaps the most thorough social welfare societies in the world.  The fact remains that there is little incentive to open a business in these countries, because of the barriers to entry, and also because of the social responsibility imposed.  Failure in these countries - bankruptcy - often means that you&#8217;re treated worse than a criminal.  According to Finnish law, for example, the state has the right to strip a person even of their clothes to satisfy debts (the tax authorities usually limit the clothes to luxury items, such as leather or furs).  There are only two things that by law cannot be taken:  eyeglasses, and a person&#8217;s bed.  So that leaves the bankrupt person outside, naked, in bed, but at least able to see&#8230;</p>
<p>In these conditions, it becomes much easier to let others take the risks&#8230; and freeload on top of their efforts, by taxing their businesses to the max.</p>
<p>Anybody who opens a business can plough through paperwork, but things become even more complicated when the entrepreneur seeks capital.  I agree with you on the fact that an employer should take care of their employees, - but mainly because it makes good business sense.  However, I don&#8217;t agree that a company should be held unduly responsible for non-employees, outside the company, in the society at large&#8230; though this is a question of degree.</p>
<p>Anyway, I don&#8217;t want to expand the discussion too widely, as it seems that this would mainly become a long exercise in political rhetoric, but I think you underestimate how much the social welfare state dampens the entrepreneurial spirit.  When life is comfortable, people basically stop trying harder.  </p>
<p>Bob:  interesting statistics.  I wonder how it all portends for the future.<br />
Based on your earlier posts, you seem to be adverse to Tony Blair&#8217;s government.  I&#8217;m wondering what options you support from the other political contenders?</p>
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		<title>By: Bob</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/thank-god-for-government-by-our-betters/#comment-573</link>
		<dc:creator>Bob</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:37:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=53#comment-573</guid>
		<description>Mark:


The political rhetoric got better and less honest:

"The gap between rich and poor in Britain is at its largest in 13 years and poverty levels under Tony Blair exceed those under Margaret Thatcher, government statistics reveal.

"Figures from the Office for National Statistics for income inequality show that differences in disposable, post-tax income at the top and bottom of society have returned to levels last seen in 1990.

"The report shows that the "Gini coefficient", an international measure of inequality, has increased from an average of 29 points under Baroness Thatcher to 35 points under Mr Blair. The figure for 2001-02 was 36 points.

"The gap between rich and poor, which was relatively static in the early Tory years, soared in the late 1980s and then declined slightly through the early 1990s. It began an upward trend in 1995 and continued to rise under Labour, which came to power in 1997. . ."

- from (subscription): http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=405436

But it must be a great comfort to the British government that:

"Profits of British companies have fallen for four straight years, according to the latest Experian Corporate Health Check. Profitability measured by average return on capital fell to 5.76 per cent in the first quarter of 2003 from a peak of 14.18 per cent in early 1999, the survey said.

"The fall, down from 6.35 per cent in the 12 months to December last year, was the first time that UK corporate profitability has fallen below 6 per cent and represents a longer period of sustained decline than in either of the last two recessions, said Experian after examining audited financial results of the 2,000 largest companies in the UK."

- from: http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/story.jsp?story=441251</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mark:</p>
<p>The political rhetoric got better and less honest:</p>
<p>&#8220;The gap between rich and poor in Britain is at its largest in 13 years and poverty levels under Tony Blair exceed those under Margaret Thatcher, government statistics reveal.</p>
<p>&#8220;Figures from the Office for National Statistics for income inequality show that differences in disposable, post-tax income at the top and bottom of society have returned to levels last seen in 1990.</p>
<p>&#8220;The report shows that the &#8220;Gini coefficient&#8221;, an international measure of inequality, has increased from an average of 29 points under Baroness Thatcher to 35 points under Mr Blair. The figure for 2001-02 was 36 points.</p>
<p>&#8220;The gap between rich and poor, which was relatively static in the early Tory years, soared in the late 1980s and then declined slightly through the early 1990s. It began an upward trend in 1995 and continued to rise under Labour, which came to power in 1997. . .&#8221;</p>
<p>- from (subscription): <a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=405436" rel="nofollow">http://news.independent.co.uk/uk/politics/story.jsp?story=405436</a></p>
<p>But it must be a great comfort to the British government that:</p>
<p>&#8220;Profits of British companies have fallen for four straight years, according to the latest Experian Corporate Health Check. Profitability measured by average return on capital fell to 5.76 per cent in the first quarter of 2003 from a peak of 14.18 per cent in early 1999, the survey said.</p>
<p>&#8220;The fall, down from 6.35 per cent in the 12 months to December last year, was the first time that UK corporate profitability has fallen below 6 per cent and represents a longer period of sustained decline than in either of the last two recessions, said Experian after examining audited financial results of the 2,000 largest companies in the UK.&#8221;</p>
<p>- from: <a href="http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/story.jsp?story=441251" rel="nofollow">http://news.independent.co.uk/business/news/story.jsp?story=441251</a></p>
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		<title>By: Mark</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/thank-god-for-government-by-our-betters/#comment-572</link>
		<dc:creator>Mark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2003 00:30:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=53#comment-572</guid>
		<description>Maarku - just as background, I'm British, I've been self employed in Britain, and have worked as an employee in Britain, France and the USA. I see little real difference in the steps necessary to form and run a small business in these places - anyone who actually wants to do it can, Indeed, I estimate that it takes me 10 times as long to do my personal taxes here in the US than it did to file my business accounts in the UK. The point, I think, is that once an entrepeneur becomes a little more successful and owes their wealth to the efforts of others as well as his or her own, then he or she does owe a responsibility to society to provide reasonable conditions and benefits for his employees , and history shows time and time again that unless monitored and held to law, entrepeneurs will screw every penny they can out of their employees. This holds true anywhere in the world, from the sweatshops of China, to the small businesses of London, to the meat-packing plants here in the US.  Now, if that means that the successful entrepeneur only makes $500,000 a year in the UK as opposed to $1M a year in the USA, I'm pretty comfortable with that, and I don't think many entrepeneurs would be discouraged either.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maarku - just as background, I&#8217;m British, I&#8217;ve been self employed in Britain, and have worked as an employee in Britain, France and the USA. I see little real difference in the steps necessary to form and run a small business in these places - anyone who actually wants to do it can, Indeed, I estimate that it takes me 10 times as long to do my personal taxes here in the US than it did to file my business accounts in the UK. The point, I think, is that once an entrepeneur becomes a little more successful and owes their wealth to the efforts of others as well as his or her own, then he or she does owe a responsibility to society to provide reasonable conditions and benefits for his employees , and history shows time and time again that unless monitored and held to law, entrepeneurs will screw every penny they can out of their employees. This holds true anywhere in the world, from the sweatshops of China, to the small businesses of London, to the meat-packing plants here in the US.  Now, if that means that the successful entrepeneur only makes $500,000 a year in the UK as opposed to $1M a year in the USA, I&#8217;m pretty comfortable with that, and I don&#8217;t think many entrepeneurs would be discouraged either.</p>
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