Comments on: Some thoughts on Greater Albania, Part 2

By: zotrules

zotrules — Fri, 30 May 2008 17:24:48 +0000

“…public discussion…”
Exactly; that’s why you didn’t tarry to unleash your poodles to protect Greece’s “honour”!
And it is not off-topic as Greece is connected to this topic and is greatly connected, not for other, but it is normal in quality of being a neighbor and owing this Albaniandom a great deal of territories!
If we were to talk about the Albanian factor, or the Albanosphere, like the topic does, we could not forget Greece, and why not, let’s give a little thought to the Greek genocide and the ethnic cleansing against Albanians!
As a matter of fact, jokes like yourself would rather prefer not to speak about such things, as they “have happened in the past”; but if I were to void Greece of Greeks and fill it with Albanians, that’d be a topic you’d wish to talk about.
Hypocrisy and vanity, that’s the motto of the double-faced.

By: Thinking Greek

Thinking Greek — Fri, 30 May 2008 09:28:30 +0000

To zotrules:

I will not continue this subject on this thread as I consider it off-topic. Fortunately, this is a public discussion for everyone to read and judge.

By: zotrules

zotrules — Thu, 29 May 2008 18:31:49 +0000

I might be racist or xenophobic, Greece is way over the top peak of the summit. There’s no “both” sides to racism, there’s only one single side, - racism or racial discrimination. It is not a story, it is a term of speech used to describe exactly people and governments like that of Greece that still today deny the existence of any ethnic minority (forget about their rights!!!)
In any case, i didn’t tell you a story so that you could analyse sides…
Albania is no Switzerland, but in order to enter the EU she must become like Switzerland, which on her side only served as an example to the argument. You have no idea, because comfort brought to you tons of political ignorance, thence there’s no way you could know what it is like. And yes, indeed, Greece’s admission was to make her a favor, was an act of pure charity, or, otherwise, comparing to Albania, was all alms. And, if you just broke out of your shell, Greece was far from being a stable country. EU is not a charitable NGO, but for Greece has been such. And yes, you’re wrong again, with the instability, because Greece has caused havoc in Albania since 1992, continously, not just sporadically, and every stepback of Albania in Brussels is attributed to Greece and her eternal moanings.
You are looking for facts and docummentation as though you knew Greece so well…
Poor blind… or comic actor, whichever suits you best.

By: Thinking Greek

Thinking Greek — Thu, 29 May 2008 15:54:38 +0000

To zotrules:

Let me clarify this point: In my opinion, the views expressed here by many posters, tend to be shallow and seem to be based around this question which underlies Doug’s posts, i.e. Doug and others (not greeks) ask this question “can we (the west) do business with…”. The meaning of west here is as it is traditionally used by British, Germans, Americans, etc. not as a purely geographical term, but having political and economical connotations. The inclusion or not of Greece in this definition is completely besides the point.

- “Greece’s admission in the EU was an act of pure charity. I’d like to know the opinion of some others here and especially citizens of member states. EU is definitely not a charity organization, and you can check facts and documentation on Greece’s admission to find out.

- Why the racism, discrimination, double, triple and multiple standards…: You call it that, but I see insecurity and reluctance by the rest of the EU members to accept economically, politically, socially (and perhaps also territorially?) unstable countries at this point, which was not the case of Poland or Malta or even Cyprus, despite appearances.

- Albania is like Switzerland?

- Greece is xenophobic and racist? Well, I suggest to the guys here to do some digging, maybe some interviewing, not just reading headlines, examine both sides of the story, and then open a new thread on this subject. I am not saying everything is perfect in Greece, far from it in fact… but extremely xenophobic and racist?

By: zotrules

zotrules — Mon, 26 May 2008 12:25:30 +0000

Mr Doug, was this “some thoughts” or a description? It was good though with some minor faults, or probably better, some points that needed a clearer definition.
What appalls me is the opinion of these “greeks” here…
Guess the unguessable and shoot me right, one of them even said: “Can we (the west) do business with them (Albanians)?”!!!
I mean, what painful experience could make one think of Greece as the “west”? I mean, geographically speaking, every single country is west of the other, China is west of the USA, Turkey is west of Greece, the globe is round and you can go on forever both sideswards.
Politically, i wished to remind these greek thinkers that Greece’s admission in the EU was an act of pure charity, not an act of political righteousness, standards fulfilment or merits.
Therefore, though you’re riding a donkey and thinking of a stallion, it would be good if sometimes you jumped off and remembered who you really are.
Mr Doug, it would be very nice if we had some of these thoughts on the EU now.
Why the racism, discrimination, double, triple and multiple standards. Why feeling at such ease with an extremely xenophobic and racist Greece . Why feeling at ease with the admission of 40 odd million of Poles(eg.) and so stiff with 25 million of Balkanians who really need it? Why would we give a damn about the EU when we’ve fulfilled all standards and become like Switzerland? Why not turn our heads to the US, China, Asia or Middle East… Otherwise, then the EU won’t have a thing to offer.
How will we ever forget what they’re doing now, this treatment we’re having, this humiliation?
Certainly I won’t, for as long as I live; and so will my entourage, the millieu surrounding me, my kids and all the rest.

By: Gent

Gent — Tue, 06 May 2008 07:16:58 +0000

The statistics from the 1930s, show the religious affiliation not of present day Albanians, but of those two-three generations ago. Talk about stale statistics. Religion doesn’t pass from generation to generation via the bloodline like the genes, and yet it’s being treated here just the same. Most people polled in that census of 1930, were coming out fresh of 5 centuries of Ottoman rule, while hardly any Albanian today has even lived a single day under the Ottoman empire. Meanwhile Albanian society has gone thru mind boggling transformations, first under the kingdom, then WWII, the communist rule for 50 years and state imposed atheism, then as a tentatively open society for the past 2 decades. People of different religious backgrounds have heavily intermarried, many others have converted into different religions especially after the communism, the mentality of the people have changed, their outlook on life and role of religion in it. We have Hoxha’s experiments of social engineering, or what was known as “the creation of the new socialist persona”, that literally turned society inside out, by moving people north and south, east and west, and up and down the social scale, to be followed by the wild urbanization of the 90’s. To even pretend today that any sort of statistics from 1930, is still valid, only betrays a hopeless ignorance. In fact, today we have no idea at all as to the percentages of religious affiliation in Albania, and that is what we know for sure. We don’t know whether Albanians by majority are muslim, or christian or atheists or simply indifferent. All we have are personal opinions, gut feelings. Hard numbers are lacking.

By: Michael Averko

Michael Averko — Sun, 04 May 2008 02:58:43 +0000

See:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albanians

I didn’t say they’re right and question the non-referemce myself.

By: eni

eni — Sat, 03 May 2008 09:51:22 +0000

This was copy pasted from Wikipedia (Article: Religion in Albania)

“A year later, in 1930, the first official religious census was carried out. Based on Ottoman data from a century earlier, 70% of the population was grouped as Muslim, 20% Christian Orthodox and 10% as Catholic.”

The census was then from 1930. Almost all citations on religion come from this census.

By: eni

eni — Sat, 03 May 2008 09:38:49 +0000

“The 70,20,10 was referenced as late as the late 1970s if not after.”

How could there be any official data at all for Albania in the late 70-ties where it is generally known that the Albanian state had officially denied/banned any form of religion and religious practices? Even more so if the relatively small Albanian clergy existing before WW2 was completely eradicated in the late 40-ties and 50-ties by the communists. Please, if you venture to give some data on religion in Albania then make sure they are reliable.

By: Michael Averko

Michael Averko — Fri, 02 May 2008 23:04:58 +0000

The 78, 14 and 8 comes from Wiki without citation.

The 70,20,10 was referenced as late as the late 1970s if not after.

By “identity” I’m referring to family background and not exclusively as observant followers.

I don’t disagree that most Albanians are generally secular. This is part of a worldwide trend.