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	<title>Comments on: Life outside of Europe</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/life-outside-of-europe/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Sat, 22 Nov 2008 12:41:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: &#12459;&#12472;&#12494;</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/life-outside-of-europe/#comment-1058</link>
		<dc:creator>&#12459;&#12472;&#12494;</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jan 2004 08:19:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>your page is inspirational ;)

&#12459;&#12472;&#12494;
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>your page is inspirational <img src='http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
&#12459;&#12472;&#12494;</p>
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		<title>By: Zizka</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/life-outside-of-europe/#comment-1057</link>
		<dc:creator>Zizka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Nov 2003 00:13:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=95#comment-1057</guid>
		<description>I'm not sure it even means "poor".  To me a redneck is white, probably rural, not necessarily Southern, socially conservative, probably racist, and violent. He probably can't be rich but he by no means has to be poor.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure it even means &#8220;poor&#8221;.  To me a redneck is white, probably rural, not necessarily Southern, socially conservative, probably racist, and violent. He probably can&#8217;t be rich but he by no means has to be poor.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick (G)</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/life-outside-of-europe/#comment-1056</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick (G)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2003 21:50:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=95#comment-1056</guid>
		<description>As a term of disparagement for those near the bottom of the socio-economic totem pole, it' applied more broadly than to just farmers...

Because it's more polite (or rather, less provocative) than using the more acurate term 'White Trash'.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a term of disparagement for those near the bottom of the socio-economic totem pole, it&#8217; applied more broadly than to just farmers&#8230;</p>
<p>Because it&#8217;s more polite (or rather, less provocative) than using the more acurate term &#8216;White Trash&#8217;.</p>
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		<title>By: Zizka</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/life-outside-of-europe/#comment-1055</link>
		<dc:creator>Zizka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 01 Nov 2003 00:39:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=95#comment-1055</guid>
		<description>I'm an American who grew up in a small midwestern town. In my home town rednecks were the guys who beat up on the local hippies.  Not necessarily poor, or farmers either. The word has quite a bit of scope. To me, it's a kind of person I don't like much who doesn't like me either. The ones I run into are pretty free with the ethnic slurs themselves and, except in fake PC or anti-PC formal occasion, I use the term when warrented.

Well said, Scott, you Screech-drinking Newfie you. (Newfies all look alike to me).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m an American who grew up in a small midwestern town. In my home town rednecks were the guys who beat up on the local hippies.  Not necessarily poor, or farmers either. The word has quite a bit of scope. To me, it&#8217;s a kind of person I don&#8217;t like much who doesn&#8217;t like me either. The ones I run into are pretty free with the ethnic slurs themselves and, except in fake PC or anti-PC formal occasion, I use the term when warrented.</p>
<p>Well said, Scott, you Screech-drinking Newfie you. (Newfies all look alike to me).</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick (G)</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/life-outside-of-europe/#comment-1054</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick (G)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2003 08:31:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=95#comment-1054</guid>
		<description>Markku,
The European welfare systems, by and large, are superior to the U.S. welfare system, by any objective measure.
That's not an attack on the American way of life. Whether one cultures 'way of life' is superior to another is a futile, and pointless discussion.
But the Rednecks way of life is almost on the fringe of the american way of life, these days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Markku,<br />
The European welfare systems, by and large, are superior to the U.S. welfare system, by any objective measure.<br />
That&#8217;s not an attack on the American way of life. Whether one cultures &#8216;way of life&#8217; is superior to another is a futile, and pointless discussion.<br />
But the Rednecks way of life is almost on the fringe of the american way of life, these days.</p>
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		<title>By: Markku Nordstr?m</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/life-outside-of-europe/#comment-1053</link>
		<dc:creator>Markku Nordstr?m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2003 07:49:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=95#comment-1053</guid>
		<description>Scott:  though you've might have lived in the US for a long time, your opinions certainly come pre-packaged as those of an anti-American European.  It beats me why you would extol the European welfare state as superior to the American way of life, inasmuch as the European welfare states are completely dependent on the buying power of the very same American worker-consumers you actually sympathize with.  Hasn't it finally occurred to you that if American workers had the same social protections Europeans do, the welfare states of Europe would become untenable?  How long would America's foray into welfarism last, given the worldwide recession - if not depression - that would result, should the American worker be taxed at the level of the European?

Just like you, I'd like to see the American working poor thrive.  But it must be done in a way that does not freeload off of other economies in the manner the European welfare economy does.   How that could be accomplished is still quite a debatable topic, but the employment of free-market principles certainly seems to be part of the equation.

In any case, while your professed concern for the American poor might be genuine, you bring nothing to the table in terms of new ideas on how to achieve solutions without resorting to the  exploitative practices of the welfare state.  Your assumption that the welfare state is superior fundamentally speaks of European arrogance, since Europeans continuously fail to acknowledge the full significance of America's continuing trade deficit vis-a-vis Europe.

My apologies, though, for descending to name-calling.  I actually come in constant contact with western Europeans here in New York, and their continual arrogance, - and ignorance of economic realities - is just astounding (in fact, Eurotrash is a word I think New Yorkers invented).  And I do see the word "redneck" thrown about, not just by them, but also by European media, especially in Scandinavia, where they seem to employ it with glee.  

The one exception seems to be Eastern Europeans, especially Poles.  As it happens, I live in a neighborhood where there are a lot of Polish immigrants.  Never have I met a more likable bunch of Europeans, all of whom are actually grateful for being in America, rather than glomming off of America as much as they can.  Perhaps their experience with hard living and working conditions makes them less susceptible to passing judgment on the American people in a manner all so easy for western Europeans.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott:  though you&#8217;ve might have lived in the US for a long time, your opinions certainly come pre-packaged as those of an anti-American European.  It beats me why you would extol the European welfare state as superior to the American way of life, inasmuch as the European welfare states are completely dependent on the buying power of the very same American worker-consumers you actually sympathize with.  Hasn&#8217;t it finally occurred to you that if American workers had the same social protections Europeans do, the welfare states of Europe would become untenable?  How long would America&#8217;s foray into welfarism last, given the worldwide recession - if not depression - that would result, should the American worker be taxed at the level of the European?</p>
<p>Just like you, I&#8217;d like to see the American working poor thrive.  But it must be done in a way that does not freeload off of other economies in the manner the European welfare economy does.   How that could be accomplished is still quite a debatable topic, but the employment of free-market principles certainly seems to be part of the equation.</p>
<p>In any case, while your professed concern for the American poor might be genuine, you bring nothing to the table in terms of new ideas on how to achieve solutions without resorting to the  exploitative practices of the welfare state.  Your assumption that the welfare state is superior fundamentally speaks of European arrogance, since Europeans continuously fail to acknowledge the full significance of America&#8217;s continuing trade deficit vis-a-vis Europe.</p>
<p>My apologies, though, for descending to name-calling.  I actually come in constant contact with western Europeans here in New York, and their continual arrogance, - and ignorance of economic realities - is just astounding (in fact, Eurotrash is a word I think New Yorkers invented).  And I do see the word &#8220;redneck&#8221; thrown about, not just by them, but also by European media, especially in Scandinavia, where they seem to employ it with glee.  </p>
<p>The one exception seems to be Eastern Europeans, especially Poles.  As it happens, I live in a neighborhood where there are a lot of Polish immigrants.  Never have I met a more likable bunch of Europeans, all of whom are actually grateful for being in America, rather than glomming off of America as much as they can.  Perhaps their experience with hard living and working conditions makes them less susceptible to passing judgment on the American people in a manner all so easy for western Europeans.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick (G)</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/life-outside-of-europe/#comment-1052</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick (G)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2003 06:50:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=95#comment-1052</guid>
		<description>"Red Neck",
for those of you that may not know refers to a farmer's tan...the sunburn that otherwise-white men get when they work outside in the sun with their clothes on.  
As such, actual 'Red Necks' are really an endangered species as agrarian America has been steadily shrinking for over a century despite heapfuls of subsidies,...much like in Europe, actually, and for largely the same reasons.

The remaining 'Red Necks' tend to be the most conservative and stubborn.  True Red Neck 'family' farmers have to work like slaves for not much economic reward.  The farm is typically the second job, nowadays.  And in their dwindling, moribund towns, there's not much else to do besides drinking.
I seem to recall that Red Necks whose farms have failed have been a major source of 'white' Urban Poverty. Yes, they have pickups, but a lot of them are functional antiques held together with bail wire.

Nonetheless, a lot of non-Red Necks identify themselves as Red Necks, because it's a vicarious link to a more romantic (as long as you don't have to live it) cultural identity more appealing than that available in suburban bedroom communities.  For an example of this, see the resurgent popularity of country music, or listen to early John (Cougar) Mellencamp songs. ('I was born in a small town, and I'll die in a small town...' likely not).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Red Neck&#8221;,<br />
for those of you that may not know refers to a farmer&#8217;s tan&#8230;the sunburn that otherwise-white men get when they work outside in the sun with their clothes on.<br />
As such, actual &#8216;Red Necks&#8217; are really an endangered species as agrarian America has been steadily shrinking for over a century despite heapfuls of subsidies,&#8230;much like in Europe, actually, and for largely the same reasons.</p>
<p>The remaining &#8216;Red Necks&#8217; tend to be the most conservative and stubborn.  True Red Neck &#8216;family&#8217; farmers have to work like slaves for not much economic reward.  The farm is typically the second job, nowadays.  And in their dwindling, moribund towns, there&#8217;s not much else to do besides drinking.<br />
I seem to recall that Red Necks whose farms have failed have been a major source of &#8216;white&#8217; Urban Poverty. Yes, they have pickups, but a lot of them are functional antiques held together with bail wire.</p>
<p>Nonetheless, a lot of non-Red Necks identify themselves as Red Necks, because it&#8217;s a vicarious link to a more romantic (as long as you don&#8217;t have to live it) cultural identity more appealing than that available in suburban bedroom communities.  For an example of this, see the resurgent popularity of country music, or listen to early John (Cougar) Mellencamp songs. (&#8217;I was born in a small town, and I&#8217;ll die in a small town&#8230;&#8217; likely not).</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Martens</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/life-outside-of-europe/#comment-1051</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2003 04:38:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=95#comment-1051</guid>
		<description>Zizka, when they're in New Jersey, they're called "pineys".  Some historical reason, I dunno why.  Markku doesn't strike me as a piney - I suspect he's some suburban beigeist for whom the defense of the American working class doesn't extend to little things like medical insurance or job security.  The primary cause of my unhappiness on this trip is the degree to which many of the people Markku thinks he's defending live far worse than, say, the long term unemployed in Europe.  But that's not the kind of thing Markku is likely to understand.

When did "redneck" become a term for designating the American working class?  "Redneck" used to mean semi-agrarian and ignorant.  I know lots of Americans who work very hard for very little money and except for the ones who actually work in agriculture, very few of them have pick-up trucks.  They cost too much unless you actually need them for something.  Frankly, all the drunk pick-up truck driving rednecks that I know don't work much at all.

Markku, I've never heard a European use the word "redneck" - even the ones who are genuinely anti-American.  Maybe the Brits are different, but I don't think most people on the continent even know the word.  I grew up in the States.  I've spent more than half of my life in the USA, so calling me "Eurotrash" is about as on target as calling George Bush a "spic" just because he's from Texas.  I'll respond to "honky", "gringo", "iceback", "wasp", "mallrat"... heck, be creative.  But when you do ethnic slurs, it helps to at least aim accurately.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Zizka, when they&#8217;re in New Jersey, they&#8217;re called &#8220;pineys&#8221;.  Some historical reason, I dunno why.  Markku doesn&#8217;t strike me as a piney - I suspect he&#8217;s some suburban beigeist for whom the defense of the American working class doesn&#8217;t extend to little things like medical insurance or job security.  The primary cause of my unhappiness on this trip is the degree to which many of the people Markku thinks he&#8217;s defending live far worse than, say, the long term unemployed in Europe.  But that&#8217;s not the kind of thing Markku is likely to understand.</p>
<p>When did &#8220;redneck&#8221; become a term for designating the American working class?  &#8220;Redneck&#8221; used to mean semi-agrarian and ignorant.  I know lots of Americans who work very hard for very little money and except for the ones who actually work in agriculture, very few of them have pick-up trucks.  They cost too much unless you actually need them for something.  Frankly, all the drunk pick-up truck driving rednecks that I know don&#8217;t work much at all.</p>
<p>Markku, I&#8217;ve never heard a European use the word &#8220;redneck&#8221; - even the ones who are genuinely anti-American.  Maybe the Brits are different, but I don&#8217;t think most people on the continent even know the word.  I grew up in the States.  I&#8217;ve spent more than half of my life in the USA, so calling me &#8220;Eurotrash&#8221; is about as on target as calling George Bush a &#8220;spic&#8221; just because he&#8217;s from Texas.  I&#8217;ll respond to &#8220;honky&#8221;, &#8220;gringo&#8221;, &#8220;iceback&#8221;, &#8220;wasp&#8221;, &#8220;mallrat&#8221;&#8230; heck, be creative.  But when you do ethnic slurs, it helps to at least aim accurately.</p>
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		<title>By: Markku Nordstr?m</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/life-outside-of-europe/#comment-1050</link>
		<dc:creator>Markku Nordstr?m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 31 Oct 2003 03:06:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=95#comment-1050</guid>
		<description>"you ignorant slut"  Doubtlessly, Zizka, you are exercising your superior European tact.

But let me ask you this:  why is it alright for Europeans to use a denigrating term for American laborers?  I rarely hear Americans use the same kind of language for, say, French farmers or German construction workers.

Let me put it this way:  for a European to use the word "redneck" in describing an American - even though Americans use the word amongst themselves - is akin to white Americans using the word "nigger", even though that is quite popular now with young African-Americans.  Yet I see "redneck" being used all the time in European media to describe Americans en masse.

Patrick:  I actually have some American-born relatives living in "Redneck Territory" who work as laborers, and yes, one of them does drive a pick-up truck (though I certainly hope not while drunk).

But you should be careful in understanding European attitudes towards America.  Things will not change even if we have a Democratic president in the White House, or a drastic change in American foreign policy to your liking.  European anti-American bigotry will still be there, simply because Europeans cannot countenance American success in fields they've been told they naturally excel in.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;you ignorant slut&#8221;  Doubtlessly, Zizka, you are exercising your superior European tact.</p>
<p>But let me ask you this:  why is it alright for Europeans to use a denigrating term for American laborers?  I rarely hear Americans use the same kind of language for, say, French farmers or German construction workers.</p>
<p>Let me put it this way:  for a European to use the word &#8220;redneck&#8221; in describing an American - even though Americans use the word amongst themselves - is akin to white Americans using the word &#8220;nigger&#8221;, even though that is quite popular now with young African-Americans.  Yet I see &#8220;redneck&#8221; being used all the time in European media to describe Americans en masse.</p>
<p>Patrick:  I actually have some American-born relatives living in &#8220;Redneck Territory&#8221; who work as laborers, and yes, one of them does drive a pick-up truck (though I certainly hope not while drunk).</p>
<p>But you should be careful in understanding European attitudes towards America.  Things will not change even if we have a Democratic president in the White House, or a drastic change in American foreign policy to your liking.  European anti-American bigotry will still be there, simply because Europeans cannot countenance American success in fields they&#8217;ve been told they naturally excel in.</p>
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		<title>By: Patrick (G)</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/life-outside-of-europe/#comment-1049</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick (G)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Oct 2003 22:22:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=95#comment-1049</guid>
		<description>Doug,
The Traffic portion is kinda wasted on me as I walk to the train to get downtown, but for quite a few people it's the most important part of the broadcast.
While it's nothing like a sunday evening heading back into Paris, we do have a significant traffic congestion problem.
My point was rather, the news that does fit between Traffic, Weather, and commercials...is very superficial.

Zizka,
Markku is a New Jersey denizen, I believe, and thus very far from RedNeck Territory.  He is not so much standing up to 'Eurosnobs' on behalf of RedNecks as grousing about anyone poaching on his turf.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Doug,<br />
The Traffic portion is kinda wasted on me as I walk to the train to get downtown, but for quite a few people it&#8217;s the most important part of the broadcast.<br />
While it&#8217;s nothing like a sunday evening heading back into Paris, we do have a significant traffic congestion problem.<br />
My point was rather, the news that does fit between Traffic, Weather, and commercials&#8230;is very superficial.</p>
<p>Zizka,<br />
Markku is a New Jersey denizen, I believe, and thus very far from RedNeck Territory.  He is not so much standing up to &#8216;Eurosnobs&#8217; on behalf of RedNecks as grousing about anyone poaching on his turf.</p>
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