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	<title>Comments on: France to be the fourth nation in space</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/france-to-be-the-fourth-nation-in-space/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 21:57:26 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Iain J Coleman</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/france-to-be-the-fourth-nation-in-space/#comment-749</link>
		<dc:creator>Iain J Coleman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2003 06:08:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=67#comment-749</guid>
		<description>Markku, don't be fucking stupid. GPS systems are increasingly being incorporated into civilian infrastructure, and there are even plans to use them for safety-critical systems like air traffic control. It is absolutely unacceptable that European civilian infrastructure should operate at the pleasure of the US Department of Defense. This is the imperative that drives the Galileo system -- and it's the reason why the US lobbied hard against it.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Markku, don&#8217;t be fucking stupid. GPS systems are increasingly being incorporated into civilian infrastructure, and there are even plans to use them for safety-critical systems like air traffic control. It is absolutely unacceptable that European civilian infrastructure should operate at the pleasure of the US Department of Defense. This is the imperative that drives the Galileo system &#8212; and it&#8217;s the reason why the US lobbied hard against it.</p>
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		<title>By: Tim</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/france-to-be-the-fourth-nation-in-space/#comment-748</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2003 05:09:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=67#comment-748</guid>
		<description>Regarding the name-issue:

Buzz Aldrin in his novel "Encounter with Tiber" inventend a fictional french space programm and of course with an french name: ?astropilot de france?, in short: ?astro-f?. I'd could imagine an astro-e.

Like Karl Heinz I would prefer something like space traveller, Raumfahrer - or sounding more poetic: Raumreisender - in german and similar terms in other languages.

By the way: I like to say that Germany's first astronaut was a cosmonaut. ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding the name-issue:</p>
<p>Buzz Aldrin in his novel &#8220;Encounter with Tiber&#8221; inventend a fictional french space programm and of course with an french name: ?astropilot de france?, in short: ?astro-f?. I&#8217;d could imagine an astro-e.</p>
<p>Like Karl Heinz I would prefer something like space traveller, Raumfahrer - or sounding more poetic: Raumreisender - in german and similar terms in other languages.</p>
<p>By the way: I like to say that Germany&#8217;s first astronaut was a cosmonaut. <img src='http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: talos</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/france-to-be-the-fourth-nation-in-space/#comment-747</link>
		<dc:creator>talos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:56:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=67#comment-747</guid>
		<description>"Edward, I know your European education tends to discourage free-association when it comes to ideas. Perhaps that in itself is another reason why Europeans lack initiative and innovation in so many fields..."
Ah, finally! I hadn't seen a good one in ages:
http://www.stickartstudio.com/paso_paso/troll_paso/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Edward, I know your European education tends to discourage free-association when it comes to ideas. Perhaps that in itself is another reason why Europeans lack initiative and innovation in so many fields&#8230;&#8221;<br />
Ah, finally! I hadn&#8217;t seen a good one in ages:<br />
<a href="http://www.stickartstudio.com/paso_paso/troll_paso/" rel="nofollow">http://www.stickartstudio.com/paso_paso/troll_paso/</a></p>
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		<title>By: Patrick (G)</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/france-to-be-the-fourth-nation-in-space/#comment-746</link>
		<dc:creator>Patrick (G)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 10 Oct 2003 03:22:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=67#comment-746</guid>
		<description>'Europeans lack initiative and innovation in so many fields'

Markku, Out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a European ?

Or did you exempt yourself from your unfounded slander ?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8216;Europeans lack initiative and innovation in so many fields&#8217;</p>
<p>Markku, Out of curiosity, do you consider yourself a European ?</p>
<p>Or did you exempt yourself from your unfounded slander ?</p>
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		<title>By: Markku Nordstr?m</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/france-to-be-the-fourth-nation-in-space/#comment-745</link>
		<dc:creator>Markku Nordstr?m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2003 23:58:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=67#comment-745</guid>
		<description>Edward, I know your European education tends to discourage free-association when it comes to ideas.  Perhaps that in itself is another reason why Europeans lack initiative and innovation in so many fields....

In either case, I take it as a compliment that I've been able to liven things up a bit.  The discussions in Euro blogs tend to be so circumspect, and filled with too much probity.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Edward, I know your European education tends to discourage free-association when it comes to ideas.  Perhaps that in itself is another reason why Europeans lack initiative and innovation in so many fields&#8230;.</p>
<p>In either case, I take it as a compliment that I&#8217;ve been able to liven things up a bit.  The discussions in Euro blogs tend to be so circumspect, and filled with too much probity.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward Hugh</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/france-to-be-the-fourth-nation-in-space/#comment-744</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward Hugh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2003 22:18:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=67#comment-744</guid>
		<description>I've just formulated a theory. 'Markku' is actually one of the fistful team in disguise, trotting out a block of  stereotypical arguments in an attempt to stir things up and get some debate going. Come-on which of us is it.... me, Mat, Jurjen, Dave......? Probably it was me. But still it has worked surprisingly well.The comments section is really a goer. Now, like the space vehicle this post was originally about, we can perhaps enjoy the little luxury of freely orbiting without the aid of that added external propulsion.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve just formulated a theory. &#8216;Markku&#8217; is actually one of the fistful team in disguise, trotting out a block of  stereotypical arguments in an attempt to stir things up and get some debate going. Come-on which of us is it&#8230;. me, Mat, Jurjen, Dave&#8230;&#8230;? Probably it was me. But still it has worked surprisingly well.The comments section is really a goer. Now, like the space vehicle this post was originally about, we can perhaps enjoy the little luxury of freely orbiting without the aid of that added external propulsion.</p>
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		<title>By: khr</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/france-to-be-the-fourth-nation-in-space/#comment-743</link>
		<dc:creator>khr</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 09 Oct 2003 14:08:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=67#comment-743</guid>
		<description>Back to the original topic

The Germans use Astronaut / Cosmonaut often enough. Proper German is "Raumfahrer" - space traveller. 

If you want some term suitable for all of Europe, the Vatican Dictionary has a modern Latin term: "Nauta Sideralis" - Star sailor ;-)

Strictly speaking, I am unhappy with any term that includes "Star". We are literally light years away from travelling to any star. "Space" is more appropiate. So intellectually I prefer Cosmonaut to Astronaut. However, I admit that I routinely use Astronaut out of habit.

Greetings
Karl Heinz

Hamburg, Germany</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Back to the original topic</p>
<p>The Germans use Astronaut / Cosmonaut often enough. Proper German is &#8220;Raumfahrer&#8221; - space traveller. </p>
<p>If you want some term suitable for all of Europe, the Vatican Dictionary has a modern Latin term: &#8220;Nauta Sideralis&#8221; - Star sailor <img src='http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Strictly speaking, I am unhappy with any term that includes &#8220;Star&#8221;. We are literally light years away from travelling to any star. &#8220;Space&#8221; is more appropiate. So intellectually I prefer Cosmonaut to Astronaut. However, I admit that I routinely use Astronaut out of habit.</p>
<p>Greetings<br />
Karl Heinz</p>
<p>Hamburg, Germany</p>
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		<title>By: KHR</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/france-to-be-the-fourth-nation-in-space/#comment-742</link>
		<dc:creator>KHR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2003 21:11:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=67#comment-742</guid>
		<description>"you'd recognize that the goodwill of Americans is certainly not returned"

I don't know what kind of people you meet or where you get information, but both in the media and in popular opinion, European attitudes towards America are neither uniform nor uniformly negative.

- Lots of people like American culture (in a broad sense, whether films, folk music, hamburgers, whatever). On the other hand, there are enough people who think it vulgar,

- Lots of people have travelled or lived in the US or know Americans who live in Europe. Generally they are happy with the experience. As usual, there are the unhappy exceptions. Plus, some American attitudes are very different from what most Europeans think (e.g.about the death penalty)

- Remember 9/11 ? There was a huge outpouring of support and sympathy for the US.

- US government policies have come in for serious criticism, especially under G.W.Bush. But there is a long-term issue here. Just one example: Do you remember that US governments supported dictatorship in Spain, Greece and Portugal ? A lot of people really mean "US government" when they say "America" - the same happen from the other side, of course

- Finally, Europe is a very diverse continent. Speaking about "European attitudes" without any qualifications often is sloppy thinking. How much can you really generalize about Britain, Ukraine, Spain, Germany, Finland, Croatia and Malta (to name just some of the countries) ?

Greetings
Karl Heinz

Hamburg, Germany</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;you&#8217;d recognize that the goodwill of Americans is certainly not returned&#8221;</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know what kind of people you meet or where you get information, but both in the media and in popular opinion, European attitudes towards America are neither uniform nor uniformly negative.</p>
<p>- Lots of people like American culture (in a broad sense, whether films, folk music, hamburgers, whatever). On the other hand, there are enough people who think it vulgar,</p>
<p>- Lots of people have travelled or lived in the US or know Americans who live in Europe. Generally they are happy with the experience. As usual, there are the unhappy exceptions. Plus, some American attitudes are very different from what most Europeans think (e.g.about the death penalty)</p>
<p>- Remember 9/11 ? There was a huge outpouring of support and sympathy for the US.</p>
<p>- US government policies have come in for serious criticism, especially under G.W.Bush. But there is a long-term issue here. Just one example: Do you remember that US governments supported dictatorship in Spain, Greece and Portugal ? A lot of people really mean &#8220;US government&#8221; when they say &#8220;America&#8221; - the same happen from the other side, of course</p>
<p>- Finally, Europe is a very diverse continent. Speaking about &#8220;European attitudes&#8221; without any qualifications often is sloppy thinking. How much can you really generalize about Britain, Ukraine, Spain, Germany, Finland, Croatia and Malta (to name just some of the countries) ?</p>
<p>Greetings<br />
Karl Heinz</p>
<p>Hamburg, Germany</p>
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		<title>By: Markku Nordstr?m</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/france-to-be-the-fourth-nation-in-space/#comment-741</link>
		<dc:creator>Markku Nordstr?m</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2003 08:20:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=67#comment-741</guid>
		<description>James:  I do agree with your sentiments.  Most Americans have no hostility towards Europe.  However, there is another kind of an American perspective that needs to be taken into account by both Europeans and Americans:  the recent immigrants, often dual citizens, who have experienced life on both sides of the pond.

In your efforts to reassure Europeans that there is no anti-European hostility in America, you'd most likely expect that your sentiments would be reciprocated.  However, should you ever have a chance to immerse yourself in the kind of discourse Europeans engage in amongst themselves - especially when the language is not in English - you'd recognize that the goodwill of Americans is certainly not returned.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>James:  I do agree with your sentiments.  Most Americans have no hostility towards Europe.  However, there is another kind of an American perspective that needs to be taken into account by both Europeans and Americans:  the recent immigrants, often dual citizens, who have experienced life on both sides of the pond.</p>
<p>In your efforts to reassure Europeans that there is no anti-European hostility in America, you&#8217;d most likely expect that your sentiments would be reciprocated.  However, should you ever have a chance to immerse yourself in the kind of discourse Europeans engage in amongst themselves - especially when the language is not in English - you&#8217;d recognize that the goodwill of Americans is certainly not returned.</p>
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		<title>By: James R MacLean</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/life/france-to-be-the-fourth-nation-in-space/#comment-740</link>
		<dc:creator>James R MacLean</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 08 Oct 2003 07:25:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=67#comment-740</guid>
		<description>I'll remain neutral in the controversy over Galileo.  But there is really no anti-European feeling in the USA (except among eccentrics--sorry, no doubt individual crazies may be located).

What you might have encountered, Mr. Jaume, was actually directed at me--not Europeans.  In other words, advocates of the Bush Administration's dictatorial proclivities are trying to create a bizarre synthetic resentment with no historic roots.  The target is Americans in the opposition.

Here's how it works: I suggest that a lot of features of European society are successful and popular and have been tested for decades.  We Americans could imitate them. 

They say "James, why do you hate America?"

I say "Where the hell did that come from?"  

They can always trundle out articles from Le Monde Diplomatique, which do tend to sound quite malevolent to Americans.  Or they can blather about Swiss socialism (yes, I'm mocking elected Republicans!) and bickering ensues about that.

European opinions, expressed in public, have always provoked a lot of alarm from Americans.  But the prestige and affection Europeans have in the US is enormous.  If you have experienced rudeness from Yanks, I'm sorry but that represents that individual's personal problems--it's not a reflection of widespread sentiment.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ll remain neutral in the controversy over Galileo.  But there is really no anti-European feeling in the USA (except among eccentrics&#8211;sorry, no doubt individual crazies may be located).</p>
<p>What you might have encountered, Mr. Jaume, was actually directed at me&#8211;not Europeans.  In other words, advocates of the Bush Administration&#8217;s dictatorial proclivities are trying to create a bizarre synthetic resentment with no historic roots.  The target is Americans in the opposition.</p>
<p>Here&#8217;s how it works: I suggest that a lot of features of European society are successful and popular and have been tested for decades.  We Americans could imitate them. </p>
<p>They say &#8220;James, why do you hate America?&#8221;</p>
<p>I say &#8220;Where the hell did that come from?&#8221;  </p>
<p>They can always trundle out articles from Le Monde Diplomatique, which do tend to sound quite malevolent to Americans.  Or they can blather about Swiss socialism (yes, I&#8217;m mocking elected Republicans!) and bickering ensues about that.</p>
<p>European opinions, expressed in public, have always provoked a lot of alarm from Americans.  But the prestige and affection Europeans have in the US is enormous.  If you have experienced rudeness from Yanks, I&#8217;m sorry but that represents that individual&#8217;s personal problems&#8211;it&#8217;s not a reflection of widespread sentiment.</p>
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