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	<title>Comments on: Beach reading: Postwar, by Tony Judt</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/history/beach-reading-postwar-by-tony-judt/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 01:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Doug (not Muir)</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/history/beach-reading-postwar-by-tony-judt/#comment-21118</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug (not Muir)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 13:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3269#comment-21118</guid>
		<description>"Germany, France and the UK — those are the three biggest countries in Europe, after all."

Russia?

Don't be discouraged about &lt;a href="http://www.google.de/search?hl=en&#38;q=premature+evaluation+site%3Afistfulofeuros.net&#38;btnG=Google+Search&#38;meta=" rel="nofollow"&gt;reviewing books before you're finished reading&lt;/a&gt; -- strike while the iron is hot! Also, you can follow-up with later posts. It's not as if the issue of AFOE is printed and your initial review has to be the very last word.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Germany, France and the UK — those are the three biggest countries in Europe, after all.&#8221;</p>
<p>Russia?</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t be discouraged about <a href="http://www.google.de/search?hl=en&amp;q=premature+evaluation+site%3Afistfulofeuros.net&amp;btnG=Google+Search&amp;meta=" rel="nofollow">reviewing books before you&#8217;re finished reading</a> &#8212; strike while the iron is hot! Also, you can follow-up with later posts. It&#8217;s not as if the issue of AFOE is printed and your initial review has to be the very last word.</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Muir</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/history/beach-reading-postwar-by-tony-judt/#comment-21113</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Muir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 19:00:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3269#comment-21113</guid>
		<description>Alex: right, not a new idea -- but expressed clearly and well.

Martin, I'm not yet seeing the "attitude towards socialism and left wing politics", but again, I haven't hit 1968 yet.  And I'd disagree that he focuses too much on Germany, France and the UK -- those are the three biggest countries in Europe, after all.  He spends plenty of time on Italy too, and manages to at least touch on Austria and Scandinavia.  If he's neglecting anyone in western Europe (so far) it's the Swiss and the Dutch.

He does treat the two halves of Europe as very separate, but for the period in question (roughly the 20 years after WWII so far) I don't think that's unreasonable.  For most of this period there was very little coming and going; the Iron Curtain started to loosen in the south after 1962, when Yugoslavia started admitting Western tourists in large numbers, but before then you had 15 years where almost nobody from one side of Europe was able to visit the other.  If he's still maintaining this division into the 1980s, then I'll be more critical.  (Teach me to review a book I haven't finished, I suppose.)


Doug M.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Alex: right, not a new idea &#8212; but expressed clearly and well.</p>
<p>Martin, I&#8217;m not yet seeing the &#8220;attitude towards socialism and left wing politics&#8221;, but again, I haven&#8217;t hit 1968 yet.  And I&#8217;d disagree that he focuses too much on Germany, France and the UK &#8212; those are the three biggest countries in Europe, after all.  He spends plenty of time on Italy too, and manages to at least touch on Austria and Scandinavia.  If he&#8217;s neglecting anyone in western Europe (so far) it&#8217;s the Swiss and the Dutch.</p>
<p>He does treat the two halves of Europe as very separate, but for the period in question (roughly the 20 years after WWII so far) I don&#8217;t think that&#8217;s unreasonable.  For most of this period there was very little coming and going; the Iron Curtain started to loosen in the south after 1962, when Yugoslavia started admitting Western tourists in large numbers, but before then you had 15 years where almost nobody from one side of Europe was able to visit the other.  If he&#8217;s still maintaining this division into the 1980s, then I&#8217;ll be more critical.  (Teach me to review a book I haven&#8217;t finished, I suppose.)</p>
<p>Doug M.</p>
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		<title>By: Craig</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/history/beach-reading-postwar-by-tony-judt/#comment-21112</link>
		<dc:creator>Craig</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:37:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3269#comment-21112</guid>
		<description>I'm disappointed with myself. I've read this book and can scarcely remember anything of it..</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m disappointed with myself. I&#8217;ve read this book and can scarcely remember anything of it..</p>
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		<title>By: Hektor Bim</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/history/beach-reading-postwar-by-tony-judt/#comment-21110</link>
		<dc:creator>Hektor Bim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 14:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3269#comment-21110</guid>
		<description>I've read parts of it - though not the whole thing obviously.

He has a clear political viewpoint on some things, which isn't surprising because he is a Brit.  He is very dismissive of nationalist movements in Europe, like the Basques, Catalonians, or even Northern Ireland.  He views nationalism as inherently destructive, and this comes through strongly in certain sections.  His sections on Ireland and Britain's influence there seemed like weasel words.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve read parts of it - though not the whole thing obviously.</p>
<p>He has a clear political viewpoint on some things, which isn&#8217;t surprising because he is a Brit.  He is very dismissive of nationalist movements in Europe, like the Basques, Catalonians, or even Northern Ireland.  He views nationalism as inherently destructive, and this comes through strongly in certain sections.  His sections on Ireland and Britain&#8217;s influence there seemed like weasel words.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Wisse</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/history/beach-reading-postwar-by-tony-judt/#comment-21109</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Wisse</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 11:35:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3269#comment-21109</guid>
		<description>I'm not surprised that you agree with Judt's perspective so much, as you are both sort of outsiders looking in on Europe, with a huge (personal and professional) knowledge of history, but not European yourself. In Judt's case, he's a Brit living in New York IIRC and you can see how this distances him from his subject. One way in which this surfaces is in his attitude towards socialism and left wing politics, or his idea that people in Western Europe didn't care or thought much about what happened in the Warsaw Pact countries. 

Personally I found this interesting but disappointing, as he focused too much on Germany, France and the UK and seemed to treat Eastern Europe too much like a monolithic block of countries at times, with much of the rest of Europe given short shift. I was expecting either something more comprehensive, or more generalising.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not surprised that you agree with Judt&#8217;s perspective so much, as you are both sort of outsiders looking in on Europe, with a huge (personal and professional) knowledge of history, but not European yourself. In Judt&#8217;s case, he&#8217;s a Brit living in New York IIRC and you can see how this distances him from his subject. One way in which this surfaces is in his attitude towards socialism and left wing politics, or his idea that people in Western Europe didn&#8217;t care or thought much about what happened in the Warsaw Pact countries. </p>
<p>Personally I found this interesting but disappointing, as he focused too much on Germany, France and the UK and seemed to treat Eastern Europe too much like a monolithic block of countries at times, with much of the rest of Europe given short shift. I was expecting either something more comprehensive, or more generalising.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/history/beach-reading-postwar-by-tony-judt/#comment-21108</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 10:03:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3269#comment-21108</guid>
		<description>Kolakowski: &lt;em&gt;"The trouble with the social democratic ideal is that it does not stock and does not sell any of the exciting commodities which various totalitarian movements - communist, fascist, or leftist - offer dream- hungry youth ... It has no prescription for the total salvation of mankind. It is, instead, an obstinate will to erode by inches the conditions which produce avoidable suffering, oppression, hunger, wars, racial and national hatred, insatiable greed and vindictive envy."&lt;/em&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kolakowski: <em>&#8220;The trouble with the social democratic ideal is that it does not stock and does not sell any of the exciting commodities which various totalitarian movements - communist, fascist, or leftist - offer dream- hungry youth &#8230; It has no prescription for the total salvation of mankind. It is, instead, an obstinate will to erode by inches the conditions which produce avoidable suffering, oppression, hunger, wars, racial and national hatred, insatiable greed and vindictive envy.&#8221;</em></p>
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