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	<title>Comments on: The Balkans&#8217; most popular head of government</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:09:58 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: G-le</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government/#comment-21314</link>
		<dc:creator>G-le</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jul 2008 16:30:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>The last post from Douglas Muir , from
February 1st, 2008 at 11:40 am 

Its rather nice short summary of the history of the region in the last 100 years.
Since greek state is from 1821, I fail to see the centuries of continuity they speak of :)
and, I do love how greeks "own" history, names, legacies :)))</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The last post from Douglas Muir , from<br />
February 1st, 2008 at 11:40 am </p>
<p>Its rather nice short summary of the history of the region in the last 100 years.<br />
Since greek state is from 1821, I fail to see the centuries of continuity they speak of <img src='http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
and, I do love how greeks &#8220;own&#8221; history, names, legacies :)))</p>
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		<title>By: Macedonia has a new government, too &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government/#comment-21185</link>
		<dc:creator>Macedonia has a new government, too &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jul 2008 12:55:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Back in January, I posted about how Macedonia&#8217;s young Prime Minister, Nikola Gruevski, was for some reason the most popular head of government in the Balkans. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Back in January, I posted about how Macedonia&#8217;s young Prime Minister, Nikola Gruevski, was for some reason the most popular head of government in the Balkans. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: FOREX REVIEW BLOG &#187; Macedonia’s government collapses too</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government/#comment-19520</link>
		<dc:creator>FOREX REVIEW BLOG &#187; Macedonia’s government collapses too</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 24 Mar 2008 01:21:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government#comment-19520</guid>
		<description>[...] a couple of months ago, I noted that Macedonia&#8217;s PM Gruevski was the most popular head of government in the Balkan region. Well, his government just collapsed. The Albanian party &#8212; his coalition [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a couple of months ago, I noted that Macedonia&#8217;s PM Gruevski was the most popular head of government in the Balkan region. Well, his government just collapsed. The Albanian party &#8212; his coalition [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Macedonia&#8217;s government collapses too &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government/#comment-19356</link>
		<dc:creator>Macedonia&#8217;s government collapses too &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Mar 2008 09:46:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government#comment-19356</guid>
		<description>[...] a couple of months ago, I noted that Macedonia&#8217;s PM Gruevski was the most popular head of government in the Balkan region. Well, his government just collapsed. The Albanian party &#8212; his coalition [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] a couple of months ago, I noted that Macedonia&#8217;s PM Gruevski was the most popular head of government in the Balkan region. Well, his government just collapsed. The Albanian party &#8212; his coalition [...]</p>
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		<title>By: John Kombos</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government/#comment-19128</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kombos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 18:56:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government#comment-19128</guid>
		<description>Some quotes from FYROM leaders etc.

:Some quotes :

The former President of The FYROM, Kiro Gligorov said: “We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century … we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians” (Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35).

b. Also, Mr Gligorov declared: “We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That’s who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia… Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century” (Toronto Star, March 15, 1992).

c. On 22 January 1999, Ambassador of the FYROM to USA, Ljubica Achevska gave a speech on the present situation in the Balkans. In answering questions at the end of her speech Mrs. Acevshka said: “We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great … Greece is Macedonia’s second largest trading partner, and its number one investor. Instead of opting for war, we have chosen the mediation of the United Nations, with talks on the ambassadorial level under Mr. Vance and Mr. Nemitz.” In reply to another question about the ethnic origin of the people of FYROM, Ambassador Achevska stated that “we are Slavs and we speak a Slav language.”

d. On 24 February 1999, in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, Gyordan Veselinov, FYROM’S Ambassador to Canada, admitted, “We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.” He also commented, “There is some confusion about the identity of the people of my country.”

e. Moreover, the Foreign Minister of the FYROM, Slobodan Casule, in an interview to Utrinski Vesnik of Skopje on December 29, 2001, said that he mentioned to the Foreign Minister of Bulgaria, Solomon Pasi, that they “belong to the same Slav people.”</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Some quotes from FYROM leaders etc.</p>
<p>:Some quotes :</p>
<p>The former President of The FYROM, Kiro Gligorov said: “We are Slavs who came to this area in the sixth century … we are not descendants of the ancient Macedonians” (Foreign Information Service Daily Report, Eastern Europe, February 26, 1992, p. 35).</p>
<p>b. Also, Mr Gligorov declared: “We are Macedonians but we are Slav Macedonians. That’s who we are! We have no connection to Alexander the Greek and his Macedonia… Our ancestors came here in the 5th and 6th century” (Toronto Star, March 15, 1992).</p>
<p>c. On 22 January 1999, Ambassador of the FYROM to USA, Ljubica Achevska gave a speech on the present situation in the Balkans. In answering questions at the end of her speech Mrs. Acevshka said: “We do not claim to be descendants of Alexander the Great … Greece is Macedonia’s second largest trading partner, and its number one investor. Instead of opting for war, we have chosen the mediation of the United Nations, with talks on the ambassadorial level under Mr. Vance and Mr. Nemitz.” In reply to another question about the ethnic origin of the people of FYROM, Ambassador Achevska stated that “we are Slavs and we speak a Slav language.”</p>
<p>d. On 24 February 1999, in an interview with the Ottawa Citizen, Gyordan Veselinov, FYROM’S Ambassador to Canada, admitted, “We are not related to the northern Greeks who produced leaders like Philip and Alexander the Great. We are a Slav people and our language is closely related to Bulgarian.” He also commented, “There is some confusion about the identity of the people of my country.”</p>
<p>e. Moreover, the Foreign Minister of the FYROM, Slobodan Casule, in an interview to Utrinski Vesnik of Skopje on December 29, 2001, said that he mentioned to the Foreign Minister of Bulgaria, Solomon Pasi, that they “belong to the same Slav people.”</p>
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		<title>By: John Kombos</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government/#comment-19127</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kombos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 18:51:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government#comment-19127</guid>
		<description>"Douglas Muir Says: 
February 1st, 2008 at 11:40 am Something that gets missed here: Greece didn’t own any of what’s now Greek Macedonia until 1913. Greek Macedonia came into existence at the same time as Serb (later Yugoslav) Macedonia"

Complete rubbish and lies.   This area prior to 1913 was occupied by the Ottoman Empire.   Greeks have always lived here.   The population exchange of 1922 meant that Greek refugees from the Pontus area were sent here. But they comprised only a small proportion of the population. 

When we refer to "Greeks" we are referring to Greeks who have always lived here, as my family has.  We did not migrate from other regions, we were not Slavs who became Greeks, we are Greek Macedonians and proud of this.  We are first and foremost Greek.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Douglas Muir Says:<br />
February 1st, 2008 at 11:40 am Something that gets missed here: Greece didn’t own any of what’s now Greek Macedonia until 1913. Greek Macedonia came into existence at the same time as Serb (later Yugoslav) Macedonia&#8221;</p>
<p>Complete rubbish and lies.   This area prior to 1913 was occupied by the Ottoman Empire.   Greeks have always lived here.   The population exchange of 1922 meant that Greek refugees from the Pontus area were sent here. But they comprised only a small proportion of the population. </p>
<p>When we refer to &#8220;Greeks&#8221; we are referring to Greeks who have always lived here, as my family has.  We did not migrate from other regions, we were not Slavs who became Greeks, we are Greek Macedonians and proud of this.  We are first and foremost Greek.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kombos</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government/#comment-19126</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kombos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 18:42:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government#comment-19126</guid>
		<description>"Why didn’t Greeks complain when Macedonia was a republic of Yugoslavia for 50 years?"

 This region of Yugoslavia was named Macedonia by Tito for political purposes. It was a region within a neighbouring country.  
I am not saying that FYROM doesn't have part of Macedonia within it's borders but what you want is the whole of Macedonia and more importantly it's history to somehow uplift you.

"“During the occupation…a combined effort was made to wrest Macedonia from Greece — an effort that allegedly continues, although in altered form… The main conspirational activity in Macedonia today appears to be directed from Skopje.” 

THE NEW YORK TIMES - July 16, 1946 

“The possible creation of a Macedonian free state within Greece to amalgamate with Marshal Tito’s Federated Macedonia State, with it's capital in Skopje…would fulfill the Slavic objectives of re-uniting the…province of Macedonia under Slavic rule, giving access of the sea to Bulgaria and Yugoslavia.” 

C. L. Sulzberger, THE NEW YORK TIMES - July 26, 1946 

Do you honestly think that the Greeks, who were the first country on the continent of Europe to fight and win a battle with the Axis in WWII, would just let you get away with this nonsense.

We have a magnificent history, and not just ancient, and we are proud fighters.  The sad part of all this is that the Slavs in FYROM will soon need Greece's help against the Albanian threat. We are all tiny countries in the Balkans and we have taken enough from the so-called big powers.  Don't allow their interference to divide our region anymore than it already has.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Why didn’t Greeks complain when Macedonia was a republic of Yugoslavia for 50 years?&#8221;</p>
<p> This region of Yugoslavia was named Macedonia by Tito for political purposes. It was a region within a neighbouring country.<br />
I am not saying that FYROM doesn&#8217;t have part of Macedonia within it&#8217;s borders but what you want is the whole of Macedonia and more importantly it&#8217;s history to somehow uplift you.</p>
<p>&#8220;“During the occupation…a combined effort was made to wrest Macedonia from Greece — an effort that allegedly continues, although in altered form… The main conspirational activity in Macedonia today appears to be directed from Skopje.” </p>
<p>THE NEW YORK TIMES - July 16, 1946 </p>
<p>“The possible creation of a Macedonian free state within Greece to amalgamate with Marshal Tito’s Federated Macedonia State, with it&#8217;s capital in Skopje…would fulfill the Slavic objectives of re-uniting the…province of Macedonia under Slavic rule, giving access of the sea to Bulgaria and Yugoslavia.” </p>
<p>C. L. Sulzberger, THE NEW YORK TIMES - July 26, 1946 </p>
<p>Do you honestly think that the Greeks, who were the first country on the continent of Europe to fight and win a battle with the Axis in WWII, would just let you get away with this nonsense.</p>
<p>We have a magnificent history, and not just ancient, and we are proud fighters.  The sad part of all this is that the Slavs in FYROM will soon need Greece&#8217;s help against the Albanian threat. We are all tiny countries in the Balkans and we have taken enough from the so-called big powers.  Don&#8217;t allow their interference to divide our region anymore than it already has.</p>
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		<title>By: John Kombos</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government/#comment-19125</link>
		<dc:creator>John Kombos</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 02 Mar 2008 18:28:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government#comment-19125</guid>
		<description>My family have always lived in north west Greece - West Macedonia - and are Greek.  I have read some inaccuracies in some of the posts here.



i.e.The current Greek majority in Greek Macedonia came from waves of ethnic transfers — in 1913, in 1918, after the Asia Minor catastrophe, and then again after the Greek Civil War — along with a healthy dose of Hellenification over the last sixty years. Even so, there’s still a Slav Macedonian minority living in Greek Macedonia."

The last sentence is the only one that has some truth in it.  There are some villages in our area where the people still speak a Slav dialect but these are few and far between.

This issue is not about a name, it is about the fact that Slavs, who, whether you like it or not, migrated to this area in 600A.D., are now claiming that they are descendents of the Ancient Macedons.  These people have erected statues of Alexander the Great all over their country, they have renamed their towns using names from Ancient Macedon e.g. Pella.  Pella as you know was the birthplace of Alexander the Great.  If you visit this town and the wonderful museum at Vergina you will notice that Phillip, Alexander's father's tomb was built with broken gravestones that had Greek letters on them.   If what the FYROMIANS are claiming is true, then wouldn't it be reasonable to suppose that Slav letters would be on these.  But, of course, here I am forgetting that two of our Orthodox saints, brothers from Thessaloniki, invented the Slav alphabet...................

This is not an "old and tired" story.
This is an attempt by a small country to steal the history of another.  I realize that countries such as the US, which has no history of it's own, do not understand this issue.  At least try not to display your ignorance so blatantly and so arrogantly.  And for God's sake, mind your own business.  Wherever you interfere in the world, you bring destruction in your wake.

John Kombos</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>My family have always lived in north west Greece - West Macedonia - and are Greek.  I have read some inaccuracies in some of the posts here.</p>
<p>i.e.The current Greek majority in Greek Macedonia came from waves of ethnic transfers — in 1913, in 1918, after the Asia Minor catastrophe, and then again after the Greek Civil War — along with a healthy dose of Hellenification over the last sixty years. Even so, there’s still a Slav Macedonian minority living in Greek Macedonia.&#8221;</p>
<p>The last sentence is the only one that has some truth in it.  There are some villages in our area where the people still speak a Slav dialect but these are few and far between.</p>
<p>This issue is not about a name, it is about the fact that Slavs, who, whether you like it or not, migrated to this area in 600A.D., are now claiming that they are descendents of the Ancient Macedons.  These people have erected statues of Alexander the Great all over their country, they have renamed their towns using names from Ancient Macedon e.g. Pella.  Pella as you know was the birthplace of Alexander the Great.  If you visit this town and the wonderful museum at Vergina you will notice that Phillip, Alexander&#8217;s father&#8217;s tomb was built with broken gravestones that had Greek letters on them.   If what the FYROMIANS are claiming is true, then wouldn&#8217;t it be reasonable to suppose that Slav letters would be on these.  But, of course, here I am forgetting that two of our Orthodox saints, brothers from Thessaloniki, invented the Slav alphabet&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;&#8230;.</p>
<p>This is not an &#8220;old and tired&#8221; story.<br />
This is an attempt by a small country to steal the history of another.  I realize that countries such as the US, which has no history of it&#8217;s own, do not understand this issue.  At least try not to display your ignorance so blatantly and so arrogantly.  And for God&#8217;s sake, mind your own business.  Wherever you interfere in the world, you bring destruction in your wake.</p>
<p>John Kombos</p>
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		<title>By: Artan Boletini</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government/#comment-18583</link>
		<dc:creator>Artan Boletini</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 02 Feb 2008 07:24:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government#comment-18583</guid>
		<description>I think Greece should give up this old and tired story. They're behaving rather childish. Instead of a silly acronym - how would Greece feel for example if someone demanded that it be called the Former Turkish Pashalik of Greece - so, how else would Macedonia be called?
That geographical area has been called Macedonia for centuries, and it's people Macedonians, whether or not they are related to the ancient Macedonians. They didn't suddenly take up the name yesterday. Why didn't Greeks complain when Macedonia was a republic of Yugoslavia for 50 years?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Greece should give up this old and tired story. They&#8217;re behaving rather childish. Instead of a silly acronym - how would Greece feel for example if someone demanded that it be called the Former Turkish Pashalik of Greece - so, how else would Macedonia be called?<br />
That geographical area has been called Macedonia for centuries, and it&#8217;s people Macedonians, whether or not they are related to the ancient Macedonians. They didn&#8217;t suddenly take up the name yesterday. Why didn&#8217;t Greeks complain when Macedonia was a republic of Yugoslavia for 50 years?</p>
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		<title>By: Douglas Muir</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government/#comment-18568</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Muir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 01 Feb 2008 11:40:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/the-balkans-most-popular-head-of-government#comment-18568</guid>
		<description>Something that gets missed here: Greece didn't own any of what's now Greek Macedonia until 1913.  Greek Macedonia came into existence at the same time as Serb (later Yugoslav) Macedonia.

And when Greece got it, Greeks were a minority.  (There was no majority.  The territory was inhabited by Greeks, Turks, Jews, Bulgarians, Romanians, Slav Macedonians, and Serbs, and no single group dominated.)

The current Greek majority in Greek Macedonia came from waves of ethnic transfers -- in 1913, in 1918, after the Asia Minor catastrophe, and then again after the Greek Civil War -- along with a healthy dose of Hellenification over the last sixty years.  Even so, there's still a Slav Macedonian minority living in Greek Macedonia.  

Also, it's worth noting how the goal posts have shifted since this dispute began.  Originally, it was "the Macedonians are claiming our territory".  A bit later, it was "the Macedonians are a potential threat" (i.e., if they were to ally with Turkey).  Now it's down to "it has deep symbolic meaning for us".


Doug M.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something that gets missed here: Greece didn&#8217;t own any of what&#8217;s now Greek Macedonia until 1913.  Greek Macedonia came into existence at the same time as Serb (later Yugoslav) Macedonia.</p>
<p>And when Greece got it, Greeks were a minority.  (There was no majority.  The territory was inhabited by Greeks, Turks, Jews, Bulgarians, Romanians, Slav Macedonians, and Serbs, and no single group dominated.)</p>
<p>The current Greek majority in Greek Macedonia came from waves of ethnic transfers &#8212; in 1913, in 1918, after the Asia Minor catastrophe, and then again after the Greek Civil War &#8212; along with a healthy dose of Hellenification over the last sixty years.  Even so, there&#8217;s still a Slav Macedonian minority living in Greek Macedonia.  </p>
<p>Also, it&#8217;s worth noting how the goal posts have shifted since this dispute began.  Originally, it was &#8220;the Macedonians are claiming our territory&#8221;.  A bit later, it was &#8220;the Macedonians are a potential threat&#8221; (i.e., if they were to ally with Turkey).  Now it&#8217;s down to &#8220;it has deep symbolic meaning for us&#8221;.</p>
<p>Doug M.</p>
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