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	<title>Comments on: Quiet Riot</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/quiet-riot/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Fri, 09 Jan 2009 00:22:08 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Does Belgium have a future? &#171; Amused Cynicism</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/quiet-riot/#comment-18052</link>
		<dc:creator>Does Belgium have a future? &#171; Amused Cynicism</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 14:44:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/quiet-riot#comment-18052</guid>
		<description>[...] Harrowell uses an interesting turn of phrase to suggest it will stay together: Of course, nothing of the sort is going to happen - in fact, if you wanted my prediction I’d say [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Harrowell uses an interesting turn of phrase to suggest it will stay together: Of course, nothing of the sort is going to happen - in fact, if you wanted my prediction I’d say [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Guy</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/quiet-riot/#comment-18048</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/quiet-riot#comment-18048</guid>
		<description>From the piece Jerome links to:

"A driving force for separatist sentiment in Belgium's Flemish north has been frustration at having to subsidise a socialist-orientated Walloon south with its attendant problems of mass unemployment and welfare dependency."

This is definitely part of the current debate. And even though I cannot rule out the possibility that neoliberals are coopting the Belgian crisis and the poor economic performance of the Walloon south to advance their own agenda, I get the impression, from reading the Flemish press, that this is not so much a neoliberal versus socialist thingy. This runs much deeper. 

That said, economic reform in Wallony is indeed vital and the Walloons are aware of that: 

http://gov.wallonie.be/code/fr/action_prio.pdf (pdf-Wallony Marshall plan)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>From the piece Jerome links to:</p>
<p>&#8220;A driving force for separatist sentiment in Belgium&#8217;s Flemish north has been frustration at having to subsidise a socialist-orientated Walloon south with its attendant problems of mass unemployment and welfare dependency.&#8221;</p>
<p>This is definitely part of the current debate. And even though I cannot rule out the possibility that neoliberals are coopting the Belgian crisis and the poor economic performance of the Walloon south to advance their own agenda, I get the impression, from reading the Flemish press, that this is not so much a neoliberal versus socialist thingy. This runs much deeper. </p>
<p>That said, economic reform in Wallony is indeed vital and the Walloons are aware of that: </p>
<p><a href="http://gov.wallonie.be/code/fr/action_prio.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://gov.wallonie.be/code/fr/action_prio.pdf</a> (pdf-Wallony Marshall plan)</p>
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		<title>By: Guy</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/quiet-riot/#comment-18046</link>
		<dc:creator>Guy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 13:03:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/quiet-riot#comment-18046</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the link to Quatremer, Alex.

I am still reading all the links, but I can already say, as far as the FT thinkpiece is concerned, that the 50% pro-Flemish independence vote is rather contested. I do not know where they got that number from, but it is probably from a poll done by one of the Flemish newspapers and may not be representative. Another poll from the same paper suggests that 70% of the Dutch would be in favour of entering into a union with Flanders... Well, maybe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the link to Quatremer, Alex.</p>
<p>I am still reading all the links, but I can already say, as far as the FT thinkpiece is concerned, that the 50% pro-Flemish independence vote is rather contested. I do not know where they got that number from, but it is probably from a poll done by one of the Flemish newspapers and may not be representative. Another poll from the same paper suggests that 70% of the Dutch would be in favour of entering into a union with Flanders&#8230; Well, maybe.</p>
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		<title>By: stet</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/quiet-riot/#comment-18045</link>
		<dc:creator>stet</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:48:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/quiet-riot#comment-18045</guid>
		<description>Maybe there is growing consensus on the fact that the solution to the "problems" of Europe might be to follow (former "socialist-oriented laggard") Bernard Kouchner's plans to invade Sudan, Iran or whatever other country outside Europe. Ok, this does not imply compulsory CIA sponsorship -- maybe Lagardère or Dassault only. Invading the Walloon south will probably be less interesting as a driver for "croissance".</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe there is growing consensus on the fact that the solution to the &#8220;problems&#8221; of Europe might be to follow (former &#8220;socialist-oriented laggard&#8221;) Bernard Kouchner&#8217;s plans to invade Sudan, Iran or whatever other country outside Europe. Ok, this does not imply compulsory CIA sponsorship &#8212; maybe Lagardère or Dassault only. Invading the Walloon south will probably be less interesting as a driver for &#8220;croissance&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: Jerome a Paris</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/quiet-riot/#comment-18044</link>
		<dc:creator>Jerome a Paris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 12:46:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/quiet-riot#comment-18044</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;
it would be nice if Eurotrib occasionally recognised that not everyone in Europe is French
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

While that may be a criticism that can be thrown at me (I'd argue back, but I understand where it's coming from), it's a bit unfair to address it to eurotrib.

&lt;blockquote&gt;
and not everyone in France agrees with either DSK or Jose Bove
&lt;/blockquote&gt;

You give me too much credit? When did I say I was speaking for anyone but myself. How is this about the French anyway? They were not discussed in that post (except for the snide reference to the bonus for the neolibs of seeing that the economic "laggards" in Wallonia are French-speaking).

And as Colman asks, what is a "functioning EU"?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>
it would be nice if Eurotrib occasionally recognised that not everyone in Europe is French
</p></blockquote>
<p>While that may be a criticism that can be thrown at me (I&#8217;d argue back, but I understand where it&#8217;s coming from), it&#8217;s a bit unfair to address it to eurotrib.</p>
<blockquote><p>
and not everyone in France agrees with either DSK or Jose Bove
</p></blockquote>
<p>You give me too much credit? When did I say I was speaking for anyone but myself. How is this about the French anyway? They were not discussed in that post (except for the snide reference to the bonus for the neolibs of seeing that the economic &#8220;laggards&#8221; in Wallonia are French-speaking).</p>
<p>And as Colman asks, what is a &#8220;functioning EU&#8221;?</p>
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		<title>By: Colman</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/quiet-riot/#comment-18041</link>
		<dc:creator>Colman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:48:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/quiet-riot#comment-18041</guid>
		<description>I've been meaning to ask you about getting on that sponsorship programme. What's the hourly rate?

Honest disagreement on points of view is one thing: claiming that "socialist-oriented" "laggards" have failed to take their "reformist responsibilities" seriously - which seems to uniformly mean moving towards a model designed to maximise profit and minimise the share of economic gains accruing to the ordinary citizen - despite the shortcoming of that narrative when it is examined closely is another. That's not honest disagreement, it's name-calling.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve been meaning to ask you about getting on that sponsorship programme. What&#8217;s the hourly rate?</p>
<p>Honest disagreement on points of view is one thing: claiming that &#8220;socialist-oriented&#8221; &#8220;laggards&#8221; have failed to take their &#8220;reformist responsibilities&#8221; seriously - which seems to uniformly mean moving towards a model designed to maximise profit and minimise the share of economic gains accruing to the ordinary citizen - despite the shortcoming of that narrative when it is examined closely is another. That&#8217;s not honest disagreement, it&#8217;s name-calling.</p>
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		<title>By: Alex Harrowell</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/quiet-riot/#comment-18040</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex Harrowell</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 11:34:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/quiet-riot#comment-18040</guid>
		<description>Yes, well, it would be nice if Eurotrib occasionally recognised that not everyone in Europe is French, and not everyone in France agrees with either DSK or Jose Bove, and that not agreeing with full-on neofunctional spillover is a legitimate position which does not imply CIA sponsorship.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, well, it would be nice if Eurotrib occasionally recognised that not everyone in Europe is French, and not everyone in France agrees with either DSK or Jose Bove, and that not agreeing with full-on neofunctional spillover is a legitimate position which does not imply CIA sponsorship.</p>
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		<title>By: Colman</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/quiet-riot/#comment-18037</link>
		<dc:creator>Colman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Sep 2007 10:10:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/political-issues/quiet-riot#comment-18037</guid>
		<description>I think the point is that Shepard's and your interpretation of "functioning EU" is rather different to Jérome's or mine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the point is that Shepard&#8217;s and your interpretation of &#8220;functioning EU&#8221; is rather different to Jérome&#8217;s or mine.</p>
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