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	<title>Comments on: Jörg Haider dead</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/jorg-haider-dead/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
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		<title>By: Oh My. &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/jorg-haider-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-22525</link>
		<dc:creator>Oh My. &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 23 Oct 2008 19:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3704#comment-22525</guid>
		<description>[...] is 27 and had been named head of the party and its parliamentary group after the death of Haider, who was 53. After the broadcast, he remains head of the party, but Josef Bucher, 43, now leads the [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] is 27 and had been named head of the party and its parliamentary group after the death of Haider, who was 53. After the broadcast, he remains head of the party, but Josef Bucher, 43, now leads the [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Golodh</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/jorg-haider-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-22486</link>
		<dc:creator>Golodh</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 19 Oct 2008 00:26:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3704#comment-22486</guid>
		<description>Well ... good riddance. 

Mr. Haider died as he lived, recklessly endangering the lives of innocents through acts of mindlessness and selfishness.

He will not be missed.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well &#8230; good riddance. </p>
<p>Mr. Haider died as he lived, recklessly endangering the lives of innocents through acts of mindlessness and selfishness.</p>
<p>He will not be missed.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Merrill</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/jorg-haider-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-22453</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Merrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 18:32:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3704#comment-22453</guid>
		<description>Thanks for re-thinking, Harry. If I had written this post, it probably would have been closer to the type of obit Lawyers Guns &amp; Money writes for people like Jesse Helms, the shorter version of which could read &quot;good riddance.&quot; I remember reading an investigative piece in the Herald Tribune sometime in the late &#039;90s that established fairly firmly that the Haider family money was based on confiscated Jewish property. Which figures, in several unpleasant ways.

And of course Hitler&#039;s ideology fit with Austria in the late 1930s; he was Austrian originally, and many of his anti-Semitic tropes can be clearly traced to the political climate of early 20th century Vienna. Not that they didn&#039;t have resonance elsewhere, or he would never have come to power in Germany, but there&#039;s a clear point of origin.

I think pro-Haider is a pretty vile position in politics, and I might have weighed in earlier, but life is full of things to do, sometimes it&#039;s better to let readers debate amongst themselves, and our readers are generally sophisticated enough not to need me/us pointing out repellent nationalism. (Though the other Doug has to ride herd on the audience in his Balkan posts sometimes.)

I can&#039;t imagine a Haider coming to power in France because of first-past-the-post voting at the top of the ticket, though it is instructive that Le Pen made it into the second round of France&#039;s 2002 presidential election. Nor can I see a similar figure sharing power in Germany. Far right German parties (Republikaner, Schill, NVP, DVU and others from earlier decades) make it into one or two state parliaments before failing at the national level. Something structural in Germany would have to change before there would be an opening on the far right. 

The structural opening for Haider was the long co-reign of Austria&#039;s two major parties. A populist decrying the supposed stitch-up could make headway and draw the discontented. There was long tension within his party between true believers in the far-right program and people more concerned with providing an alternative to the big two. And he didn&#039;t really have a governing program either, the government he participated in was ineffective in almost everything except embarrassing the EU.

The other Doug has written that most European countries have a noxious nationalist party, and sometimes electoral quirks bring them a share of power. What to do then is a more challenging question, as for example with Slovakia at present.

At the end of the day, it seems that somewhere between 10 and 15 percent of most Europeans will vote for parties that espouse vile, racist and nationalist politics. On the other hand, it means that 85 to 90 percent will not. Things could be (and have been) worse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for re-thinking, Harry. If I had written this post, it probably would have been closer to the type of obit Lawyers Guns &amp; Money writes for people like Jesse Helms, the shorter version of which could read &#8220;good riddance.&#8221; I remember reading an investigative piece in the Herald Tribune sometime in the late &#8217;90s that established fairly firmly that the Haider family money was based on confiscated Jewish property. Which figures, in several unpleasant ways.</p>
<p>And of course Hitler&#8217;s ideology fit with Austria in the late 1930s; he was Austrian originally, and many of his anti-Semitic tropes can be clearly traced to the political climate of early 20th century Vienna. Not that they didn&#8217;t have resonance elsewhere, or he would never have come to power in Germany, but there&#8217;s a clear point of origin.</p>
<p>I think pro-Haider is a pretty vile position in politics, and I might have weighed in earlier, but life is full of things to do, sometimes it&#8217;s better to let readers debate amongst themselves, and our readers are generally sophisticated enough not to need me/us pointing out repellent nationalism. (Though the other Doug has to ride herd on the audience in his Balkan posts sometimes.)</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine a Haider coming to power in France because of first-past-the-post voting at the top of the ticket, though it is instructive that Le Pen made it into the second round of France&#8217;s 2002 presidential election. Nor can I see a similar figure sharing power in Germany. Far right German parties (Republikaner, Schill, NVP, DVU and others from earlier decades) make it into one or two state parliaments before failing at the national level. Something structural in Germany would have to change before there would be an opening on the far right. </p>
<p>The structural opening for Haider was the long co-reign of Austria&#8217;s two major parties. A populist decrying the supposed stitch-up could make headway and draw the discontented. There was long tension within his party between true believers in the far-right program and people more concerned with providing an alternative to the big two. And he didn&#8217;t really have a governing program either, the government he participated in was ineffective in almost everything except embarrassing the EU.</p>
<p>The other Doug has written that most European countries have a noxious nationalist party, and sometimes electoral quirks bring them a share of power. What to do then is a more challenging question, as for example with Slovakia at present.</p>
<p>At the end of the day, it seems that somewhere between 10 and 15 percent of most Europeans will vote for parties that espouse vile, racist and nationalist politics. On the other hand, it means that 85 to 90 percent will not. Things could be (and have been) worse.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Roberts</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/jorg-haider-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-22450</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 13:14:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3704#comment-22450</guid>
		<description>OK, sorry, I wrote that in anger having seen the comments from the Austrian Nazis above. I didn&#039;t really mean it. They&#039;re probably not all like that. I do consider Austrian politics to be unique in Western Europe for tolerating and encouraging Nazism though. Can you imagine the outrage over a Haider being elected in Germany now? Or France? When the Nazi above describes Haider&#039;s death as a &#039;tragedy&#039; it makes me weep for their victims and for anyone in Austria who genuinely does oppose this SS-praising, rabidly anti-immigrant and anti-semitic party. 
The Nazis were welcomed with open arms when they first annexed Austria; their ideology did fit very nicely with Austrian culture and contemporary Austrian ideals and feelings towards Jews. When you see the results of opinion polls in Austria these days it seems that not a lot has changed. Do you not consider the pro-Haider comments and the comment that &quot;we should thank him&quot; as supportive of Nazism? Does this not bother you? Nazism is alive and well and living on our doorstep. Incidentally, if you think my comments are inflammatory or offensive, have a glance at what&#039;s written about Israel and Israelis (and thoroughly supported by the vast majority of webmasters and people in general. A million websites call for their annihilation without criticism).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>OK, sorry, I wrote that in anger having seen the comments from the Austrian Nazis above. I didn&#8217;t really mean it. They&#8217;re probably not all like that. I do consider Austrian politics to be unique in Western Europe for tolerating and encouraging Nazism though. Can you imagine the outrage over a Haider being elected in Germany now? Or France? When the Nazi above describes Haider&#8217;s death as a &#8216;tragedy&#8217; it makes me weep for their victims and for anyone in Austria who genuinely does oppose this SS-praising, rabidly anti-immigrant and anti-semitic party.<br />
The Nazis were welcomed with open arms when they first annexed Austria; their ideology did fit very nicely with Austrian culture and contemporary Austrian ideals and feelings towards Jews. When you see the results of opinion polls in Austria these days it seems that not a lot has changed. Do you not consider the pro-Haider comments and the comment that &#8220;we should thank him&#8221; as supportive of Nazism? Does this not bother you? Nazism is alive and well and living on our doorstep. Incidentally, if you think my comments are inflammatory or offensive, have a glance at what&#8217;s written about Israel and Israelis (and thoroughly supported by the vast majority of webmasters and people in general. A million websites call for their annihilation without criticism).</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Merrill</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/jorg-haider-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-22449</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Merrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 12:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3704#comment-22449</guid>
		<description>Don&#039;t tar all Austrians with the Haider brush, Harry, and don&#039;t go talking about wiping whole peoples from the face of Europe. There&#039;s been more than enough of that in rhetoric and reality.

Consider this a yellow card from the proprietors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Don&#8217;t tar all Austrians with the Haider brush, Harry, and don&#8217;t go talking about wiping whole peoples from the face of Europe. There&#8217;s been more than enough of that in rhetoric and reality.</p>
<p>Consider this a yellow card from the proprietors.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Roberts</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/jorg-haider-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-22448</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:14:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3704#comment-22448</guid>
		<description>&quot;Austria grieves...we have to say thanks.&quot;

Yeah, thanks a lot for perpetuating bigotry and racial hatred in a world already overflowing with it. To hell with Austria. There is a special place in hell for Haider, Waldheim and all the rest of these sub-human bastards.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Austria grieves&#8230;we have to say thanks.&#8221;</p>
<p>Yeah, thanks a lot for perpetuating bigotry and racial hatred in a world already overflowing with it. To hell with Austria. There is a special place in hell for Haider, Waldheim and all the rest of these sub-human bastards.</p>
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		<title>By: Harry Roberts</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/jorg-haider-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-22447</link>
		<dc:creator>Harry Roberts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Oct 2008 11:12:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3704#comment-22447</guid>
		<description>Haider was a repulsive man, following in the great Austrian tradition of electing Nazi butchers to important offices of state. Austria had Kurt Waldheim, a Nazi war criminal, as its president in the 1980s, a fact whcih seems unbelieveable to those in the civilised world. Haider was no better, a Nazi scumbag who will rot in hell. These defences of him tell you all you need to know about the majority of Austrians, a shower of ignorant, violent, Jew-hating peasants who ought to be wiped from the face of Europe.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Haider was a repulsive man, following in the great Austrian tradition of electing Nazi butchers to important offices of state. Austria had Kurt Waldheim, a Nazi war criminal, as its president in the 1980s, a fact whcih seems unbelieveable to those in the civilised world. Haider was no better, a Nazi scumbag who will rot in hell. These defences of him tell you all you need to know about the majority of Austrians, a shower of ignorant, violent, Jew-hating peasants who ought to be wiped from the face of Europe.</p>
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		<title>By: Emma Goldberg</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/jorg-haider-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-22438</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma Goldberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 14 Oct 2008 03:58:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3704#comment-22438</guid>
		<description>Yeah, what human said.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yeah, what human said.</p>
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		<title>By: human</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/jorg-haider-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-22437</link>
		<dc:creator>human</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 22:49:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3704#comment-22437</guid>
		<description>Shame on you Austria, we dont want to have to come back there and sort out the Nazi seed growing in your country again! Please take a look at your society where you find nazi salutes, 26year kidnappings, urinating from windows etc. The world is a much bigger place and you have to accept the multitude of societies before you become a relic of the 20th century!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Shame on you Austria, we dont want to have to come back there and sort out the Nazi seed growing in your country again! Please take a look at your society where you find nazi salutes, 26year kidnappings, urinating from windows etc. The world is a much bigger place and you have to accept the multitude of societies before you become a relic of the 20th century!</p>
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		<title>By: Emma Goldberg</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/jorg-haider-dead/comment-page-1/#comment-22430</link>
		<dc:creator>Emma Goldberg</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Oct 2008 17:27:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3704#comment-22430</guid>
		<description>slndr,

Ct wth th slf-rghts whty crp. ll whts r rcst pgs. W whts hv sd nn-whts fr r nds fr ns. Wht mks y s slflss nd rghts? Typcl Lbrl spn dctr.  spps y thnk th NCP nd wht nt RLLY cr bt frcn mrcn rghts nd dgnty, h? w. Thr s nthng mr flthy thn  wht mn tht thnks h&#039;s  blssng t th nn-wht wrld. Gg m. Thnks fr cnsrng my prvs cmmnt y lttl fscst. Tlk bt htr. Y cn&#039;t vn hndl n ntrnt cmmnt? Yh, I wnt y dcdng fr m lrght, y lttl wht ml. &#039;ll bt y jst lv wtchng nn-whts tl thr n str. s ths bt thr rghts nd prgrss r y prftng ff th bcks f th brsd?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>slndr,</p>
<p>Ct wth th slf-rghts whty crp. ll whts r rcst pgs. W whts hv sd nn-whts fr r nds fr ns. Wht mks y s slflss nd rghts? Typcl Lbrl spn dctr.  spps y thnk th NCP nd wht nt RLLY cr bt frcn mrcn rghts nd dgnty, h? w. Thr s nthng mr flthy thn  wht mn tht thnks h&#8217;s  blssng t th nn-wht wrld. Gg m. Thnks fr cnsrng my prvs cmmnt y lttl fscst. Tlk bt htr. Y cn&#8217;t vn hndl n ntrnt cmmnt? Yh, I wnt y dcdng fr m lrght, y lttl wht ml. &#8216;ll bt y jst lv wtchng nn-whts tl thr n str. s ths bt thr rghts nd prgrss r y prftng ff th bcks f th brsd?</p>
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