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	<title>Comments on: Getting Hotter in Hungary</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/getting-hotter-in-hungary/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Sun, 23 Nov 2008 10:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Dr. Minorka</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/getting-hotter-in-hungary/#comment-16115</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Minorka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 00:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Re: Edward, last paragraph
Yes, that is essentially the way out of the crisis. There are two persons to loose from this solution: Gyurcsany and Orban. They will "destroy" Hungary for their own leadership.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Re: Edward, last paragraph<br />
Yes, that is essentially the way out of the crisis. There are two persons to loose from this solution: Gyurcsany and Orban. They will &#8220;destroy&#8221; Hungary for their own leadership.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/getting-hotter-in-hungary/#comment-16114</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Oct 2006 00:12:02 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>"On the long run it may be very important to see a government punished for fudging economic data."

Normally Oliver I would absolutely agree with you, indeed my "In the morning, in the evening and at night" post was hardly at attempt to excuse Gyurcsany in any way, and Solyom is probably right (but I am trying to avoid getting drawn in to the details of Hungarian politics).

The problem is really "will Hungary have a long run"?

This question is not so ridiculous as it sounds. Obviously Hungary as a nation state will continue to exist, this is not my point. The issue which is posed is whether Hungary will have a social and economic future which will inspire any sort of confidence.

We are only 5 to 10 years away from the time when the demographic issues will hit Hungary very hard indeed. If Hungary descends into internicine political warfare now, then the economy may well crash in 2007. Simply foreign investment may well come straight out, and as the forint sinks the mortagages will become unbearable. If they let themselves inflict this kind of damage then the time they have left will be largely lost. This is the issue.

Oh, and there is that other little issue of contagion. If Hungary seriously crashes then the rest of Eastern Europe will be affected. These are not insignificant matters, and for that reason I think an end to the fueding and a consensual government built about an agreed belt tightening programme is now an urgent necessity.

Does this mean that Gyurcsany should go, probably, but he should be replaced by someone who can command cross party support, otherwise it will all end in tears, and that won't take too long to happen. That is all.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;On the long run it may be very important to see a government punished for fudging economic data.&#8221;</p>
<p>Normally Oliver I would absolutely agree with you, indeed my &#8220;In the morning, in the evening and at night&#8221; post was hardly at attempt to excuse Gyurcsany in any way, and Solyom is probably right (but I am trying to avoid getting drawn in to the details of Hungarian politics).</p>
<p>The problem is really &#8220;will Hungary have a long run&#8221;?</p>
<p>This question is not so ridiculous as it sounds. Obviously Hungary as a nation state will continue to exist, this is not my point. The issue which is posed is whether Hungary will have a social and economic future which will inspire any sort of confidence.</p>
<p>We are only 5 to 10 years away from the time when the demographic issues will hit Hungary very hard indeed. If Hungary descends into internicine political warfare now, then the economy may well crash in 2007. Simply foreign investment may well come straight out, and as the forint sinks the mortagages will become unbearable. If they let themselves inflict this kind of damage then the time they have left will be largely lost. This is the issue.</p>
<p>Oh, and there is that other little issue of contagion. If Hungary seriously crashes then the rest of Eastern Europe will be affected. These are not insignificant matters, and for that reason I think an end to the fueding and a consensual government built about an agreed belt tightening programme is now an urgent necessity.</p>
<p>Does this mean that Gyurcsany should go, probably, but he should be replaced by someone who can command cross party support, otherwise it will all end in tears, and that won&#8217;t take too long to happen. That is all.</p>
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		<title>By: Oliver</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/getting-hotter-in-hungary/#comment-16113</link>
		<dc:creator>Oliver</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 23:04:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2707#comment-16113</guid>
		<description>At the end of the day it is a lot less important to decide who is responsible

That is debateable. On the long run it may be very important to see a government punished for fudging economic data.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>At the end of the day it is a lot less important to decide who is responsible</p>
<p>That is debateable. On the long run it may be very important to see a government punished for fudging economic data.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/getting-hotter-in-hungary/#comment-16112</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 22:02:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2707#comment-16112</guid>
		<description>For what its worth here's the link to the OECD Economic Outlook 2006. The economioc data does not make very attractive reading.

As we can see from the tone adopted by one of the contributors above the situation in Hungary is hardly conducive to dialogue at the moment. At the end of the day it is a lot less important to decide who is responsible for the mess than it is to get the necessary unity to do something about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For what its worth here&#8217;s the link to the OECD Economic Outlook 2006. The economioc data does not make very attractive reading.</p>
<p>As we can see from the tone adopted by one of the contributors above the situation in Hungary is hardly conducive to dialogue at the moment. At the end of the day it is a lot less important to decide who is responsible for the mess than it is to get the necessary unity to do something about it.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Minorka</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/getting-hotter-in-hungary/#comment-16111</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Minorka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 20:40:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2707#comment-16111</guid>
		<description>In addition some Central Statistics Office publications:
Hungary, 2003
http://portal.ksh.hu/pls/ksh/docs/hun/xftp/idoszaki/mo/hungary2003.pdf
Hungary, 2004
http://portal.ksh.hu/pls/ksh/docs/hun/xftp/idoszaki/mo/hungary2004.pdf</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In addition some Central Statistics Office publications:<br />
Hungary, 2003<br />
<a href="http://portal.ksh.hu/pls/ksh/docs/hun/xftp/idoszaki/mo/hungary2003.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://portal.ksh.hu/pls/ksh/docs/hun/xftp/idoszaki/mo/hungary2003.pdf</a><br />
Hungary, 2004<br />
<a href="http://portal.ksh.hu/pls/ksh/docs/hun/xftp/idoszaki/mo/hungary2004.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://portal.ksh.hu/pls/ksh/docs/hun/xftp/idoszaki/mo/hungary2004.pdf</a></p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Minorka</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/getting-hotter-in-hungary/#comment-16110</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Minorka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 20:34:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2707#comment-16110</guid>
		<description>What I have found English:
IMF: Hungary--Statistical Appendix, 1997
Unfortunately it is mainly pre-1997
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/1997/cr97104.pdf
IMF: Hungary - Selected Issues, 1999
(pdf, 8.7MB!)
http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/1999/cr9927.pdf
IMF on Hungary
http://www.imf.org/external/country/hun/index.htm
OECD Economic survey of Hungary, 2005 (Policy Brief)
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/9/0/35105097.pdf
Hungary: External links to macroeconomic reports and data
http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/26/1/18636751.htm
Hungarian National Bank, Annual Reports
http://english.mnb.hu/engine.aspx?page=mnben_evesjel
-
The sources of may original numbers were published only in Hungarian.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What I have found English:<br />
IMF: Hungary&#8211;Statistical Appendix, 1997<br />
Unfortunately it is mainly pre-1997<br />
<a href="http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/1997/cr97104.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/1997/cr97104.pdf</a><br />
IMF: Hungary - Selected Issues, 1999<br />
(pdf, 8.7MB!)<br />
<a href="http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/1999/cr9927.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.imf.org/external/pubs/ft/scr/1999/cr9927.pdf</a><br />
IMF on Hungary<br />
<a href="http://www.imf.org/external/country/hun/index.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.imf.org/external/country/hun/index.htm</a><br />
OECD Economic survey of Hungary, 2005 (Policy Brief)<br />
<a href="http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/9/0/35105097.pdf" rel="nofollow">http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/9/0/35105097.pdf</a><br />
Hungary: External links to macroeconomic reports and data<br />
<a href="http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/26/1/18636751.htm" rel="nofollow">http://www.oecd.org/dataoecd/26/1/18636751.htm</a><br />
Hungarian National Bank, Annual Reports<br />
<a href="http://english.mnb.hu/engine.aspx?page=mnben_evesjel" rel="nofollow">http://english.mnb.hu/engine.aspx?page=mnben_evesjel</a><br />
-<br />
The sources of may original numbers were published only in Hungarian.</p>
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		<title>By: Varangy</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/getting-hotter-in-hungary/#comment-16109</link>
		<dc:creator>Varangy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 13:55:51 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Holy God!  Please spare me from ex-pat douchebags pontificating on Hungarian politics!  

With the outcome of Friday’s vote seeming to lean in Gyurcsany’s favour the opposition Fidesz party are getting frustrated and restless. Opposition leader Viktor Orban is already crying ’foul’.

Are you smoking dope?  Viki is not crying foul but pointing out the obvious foregone conclusion of the confidence vote.  Especially considering MDF's involvement.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Holy God!  Please spare me from ex-pat douchebags pontificating on Hungarian politics!  </p>
<p>With the outcome of Friday’s vote seeming to lean in Gyurcsany’s favour the opposition Fidesz party are getting frustrated and restless. Opposition leader Viktor Orban is already crying ’foul’.</p>
<p>Are you smoking dope?  Viki is not crying foul but pointing out the obvious foregone conclusion of the confidence vote.  Especially considering MDF&#8217;s involvement.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug M.</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/getting-hotter-in-hungary/#comment-16108</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug M.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Oct 2006 02:03:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2707#comment-16108</guid>
		<description>I thought that first set of figures seemed awfully good.

Deficit figures for 1997-99?  A URL would also be nice.


Doug M.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I thought that first set of figures seemed awfully good.</p>
<p>Deficit figures for 1997-99?  A URL would also be nice.</p>
<p>Doug M.</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Minorka</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/getting-hotter-in-hungary/#comment-16107</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Minorka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:24:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2707#comment-16107</guid>
		<description>In my previous post deficit=current account deficit.
Deficit of the budget (according the ESA 95, percentage of the GDP):
2001 7,7%
2002 7,4%
2003 5,9%</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>In my previous post deficit=current account deficit.<br />
Deficit of the budget (according the ESA 95, percentage of the GDP):<br />
2001 7,7%<br />
2002 7,4%<br />
2003 5,9%</p>
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		<title>By: Dr. Minorka</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/governments-and-parties/getting-hotter-in-hungary/#comment-16106</link>
		<dc:creator>Dr. Minorka</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Oct 2006 18:15:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2707#comment-16106</guid>
		<description>"considering that the roots of the current crisis lie in Orban's administration (1998-2002). Orban got elected on a platform of (1) cutting taxes, and (2) improving social benefits. Oh yes, and (3) reducing the deficit... well, that one sort of got lost in the shuffle."
This is definitly untrue.
deficit (in percentage of GDP):
2000 6,2%
2001 3,4%
2002 4%
2003 5,7%
Orban in power: 1998 - May 2002
The real problem: the unbelievable stupid, incompetent  management (mismanagement would be a proper term) of the economy by the socialists. What we see in Hungary is the agony of the Left.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;considering that the roots of the current crisis lie in Orban&#8217;s administration (1998-2002). Orban got elected on a platform of (1) cutting taxes, and (2) improving social benefits. Oh yes, and (3) reducing the deficit&#8230; well, that one sort of got lost in the shuffle.&#8221;<br />
This is definitly untrue.<br />
deficit (in percentage of GDP):<br />
2000 6,2%<br />
2001 3,4%<br />
2002 4%<br />
2003 5,7%<br />
Orban in power: 1998 - May 2002<br />
The real problem: the unbelievable stupid, incompetent  management (mismanagement would be a proper term) of the economy by the socialists. What we see in Hungary is the agony of the Left.</p>
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