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	<title>Comments on: Horrible European Surveillance Proposals</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/horrible-european-surveillance-proposals/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Mon, 13 Feb 2012 07:39:06 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: So what is it with Tory MEPs and the Internet? &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/horrible-european-surveillance-proposals/comment-page-1/#comment-25218</link>
		<dc:creator>So what is it with Tory MEPs and the Internet? &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 17 May 2009 17:26:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3268#comment-25218</guid>
		<description>[...] horrible surveillance proposals came up again in the European Parliament, and got shot down again. Even though their co-author Syed [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] horrible surveillance proposals came up again in the European Parliament, and got shot down again. Even though their co-author Syed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: a lost sheep back in the fold &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/horrible-european-surveillance-proposals/comment-page-1/#comment-23589</link>
		<dc:creator>a lost sheep back in the fold &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 11 Feb 2009 00:43:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3268#comment-23589</guid>
		<description>[...] will you look at this? Remember Tory MEP Syed Kamall, who was the author of a proposal to implement total Internet surveillance in the EU, in order to make the French record industry happy? (I&#8217;m sorry to say I spelt his name [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] will you look at this? Remember Tory MEP Syed Kamall, who was the author of a proposal to implement total Internet surveillance in the EU, in order to make the French record industry happy? (I&#8217;m sorry to say I spelt his name [...]</p>
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		<title>By: The European Parliament: It&#8217;s Doing Democracy &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/horrible-european-surveillance-proposals/comment-page-1/#comment-22269</link>
		<dc:creator>The European Parliament: It&#8217;s Doing Democracy &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 25 Sep 2008 23:12:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3268#comment-22269</guid>
		<description>[...] ISPs should be required to cut off service to anyone they were told was downloading illegal music. Then, for some reason, British Conservative MEPs joined in; it looked like we were on our way to a continent-wide mandate for deep packet inspection, with [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] ISPs should be required to cut off service to anyone they were told was downloading illegal music. Then, for some reason, British Conservative MEPs joined in; it looked like we were on our way to a continent-wide mandate for deep packet inspection, with [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Media pluralism in the EU and *cough* responsible blogging &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/horrible-european-surveillance-proposals/comment-page-1/#comment-21117</link>
		<dc:creator>Media pluralism in the EU and *cough* responsible blogging &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Jul 2008 10:02:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3268#comment-21117</guid>
		<description>[...] European MP&#8217;s sure love to control everything, as Alex&#8217; postHorrible European Surveillance Proposals already demonstrated. This may be old news to some of you, but check out this motion for a European [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] European MP&#8217;s sure love to control everything, as Alex&#8217; postHorrible European Surveillance Proposals already demonstrated. This may be old news to some of you, but check out this motion for a European [...]</p>
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		<title>By: By The Fault &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Linking Up with the World</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/horrible-european-surveillance-proposals/comment-page-1/#comment-21106</link>
		<dc:creator>By The Fault &#187; Blog Archive &#187; Linking Up with the World</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 05 Jul 2008 08:51:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3268#comment-21106</guid>
		<description>[...] Surveillance Proposals  Fistful of Euros (lucky them) reports on the French President&#8217;s proposals on Internet surveillance that failed [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Surveillance Proposals  Fistful of Euros (lucky them) reports on the French President&#8217;s proposals on Internet surveillance that failed [...]</p>
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		<title>By: buzz</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/horrible-european-surveillance-proposals/comment-page-1/#comment-21104</link>
		<dc:creator>buzz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 16:31:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3268#comment-21104</guid>
		<description>&lt;strong&gt;Horrible European Surveillance Proposals (A Fistful of Euros)...&lt;/strong&gt;

It looks like the French government, having failed to impose an awful record-industry inspired snooping act at home, is trying to policy-launder it through the European Union....</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>Horrible European Surveillance Proposals (A Fistful of Euros)&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>It looks like the French government, having failed to impose an awful record-industry inspired snooping act at home, is trying to policy-launder it through the European Union&#8230;.</p>
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		<title>By: Emil</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/horrible-european-surveillance-proposals/comment-page-1/#comment-21100</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 07:21:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3268#comment-21100</guid>
		<description>Better summary, but not that easy to find: 

http://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/Telecom-Package_Compromise-Amendments_ITRE-IMCO_7th-July

IANAL, but this does not seem so terrible.

To my poor understanding of law and English it seems that the amendments say:
 - attempts to block copyright infringement should not disturb legitimate traffic
 - DRM devices should not be mandatory
 - existing DRM devices/software should not interfere with somebody&#039;s personal data or misuse that personal data 
 - member states that are not pleased with these arrangements can inform the Commision, according to certain procedure, about their issues

I read as carefully as I could the articles and the amendments, and I could not find phrases that would mandate or make easier anything that is illegal right now (i.e.: ISP spying on their clients -- http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7486743.stm ). Instead, the incriminated texts define limits that would make, for example, indiscriminate blocking or slowing of bittorent trafic illegal, and efficient supervision or filtering very difficult and expensive.

I see http://www.ffii.org/ are silent, for now, or at least don&#039;t deal with this supposed emergency on pages that are easy to find. Considering the professional way they behaved during the swpat crisis, I&#039;d get worried if they get worried first. 

now I&#039;ll crawl back to my neo-con dungeon.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Better summary, but not that easy to find: </p>
<p><a href="http://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/Telecom-Package_Compromise-Amendments_ITRE-IMCO_7th-July" rel="nofollow">http://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/Telecom-Package_Compromise-Amendments_ITRE-IMCO_7th-July</a></p>
<p>IANAL, but this does not seem so terrible.</p>
<p>To my poor understanding of law and English it seems that the amendments say:<br />
 &#8211; attempts to block copyright infringement should not disturb legitimate traffic<br />
 &#8211; DRM devices should not be mandatory<br />
 &#8211; existing DRM devices/software should not interfere with somebody&#8217;s personal data or misuse that personal data<br />
 &#8211; member states that are not pleased with these arrangements can inform the Commision, according to certain procedure, about their issues</p>
<p>I read as carefully as I could the articles and the amendments, and I could not find phrases that would mandate or make easier anything that is illegal right now (i.e.: ISP spying on their clients &#8212; <a href="http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7486743.stm" rel="nofollow">http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/7486743.stm</a> ). Instead, the incriminated texts define limits that would make, for example, indiscriminate blocking or slowing of bittorent trafic illegal, and efficient supervision or filtering very difficult and expensive.</p>
<p>I see <a href="http://www.ffii.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.ffii.org/</a> are silent, for now, or at least don&#8217;t deal with this supposed emergency on pages that are easy to find. Considering the professional way they behaved during the swpat crisis, I&#8217;d get worried if they get worried first. </p>
<p>now I&#8217;ll crawl back to my neo-con dungeon.</p>
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		<title>By: David</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/horrible-european-surveillance-proposals/comment-page-1/#comment-21099</link>
		<dc:creator>David</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 06:45:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3268#comment-21099</guid>
		<description>IMO this shows that purported conservative principle is a screen to push through the usual &quot;pro-business&quot; shit. When it comes down to it, whether it is pushed in a national or supranational forum doesn&#039;t matter all that much. I will do my bit, and I hope this doesn&#039;t pass and that PSE proves to be less willing to hand over fundamental rights for private interests.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IMO this shows that purported conservative principle is a screen to push through the usual &#8220;pro-business&#8221; shit. When it comes down to it, whether it is pushed in a national or supranational forum doesn&#8217;t matter all that much. I will do my bit, and I hope this doesn&#8217;t pass and that PSE proves to be less willing to hand over fundamental rights for private interests.</p>
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		<title>By: Philip Hunt</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/horrible-european-surveillance-proposals/comment-page-1/#comment-21097</link>
		<dc:creator>Philip Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 04 Jul 2008 01:15:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3268#comment-21097</guid>
		<description>IIRC, Kamall opposed EU moves to stop mobile phone companies from overcharging customers visiting another EU country. And Harbour was one of the main pro software patent MEPs during the fight against the swpat directive.

In other words, they both have serious form as anti digital rights and pro big business being able to fuck people around.

I wonder if either of them are in the pay of RIAA or MPAA member companies? Would it be possible to find out?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>IIRC, Kamall opposed EU moves to stop mobile phone companies from overcharging customers visiting another EU country. And Harbour was one of the main pro software patent MEPs during the fight against the swpat directive.</p>
<p>In other words, they both have serious form as anti digital rights and pro big business being able to fuck people around.</p>
<p>I wonder if either of them are in the pay of RIAA or MPAA member companies? Would it be possible to find out?</p>
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		<title>By: Emil</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/horrible-european-surveillance-proposals/comment-page-1/#comment-21095</link>
		<dc:creator>Emil</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 23:41:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3268#comment-21095</guid>
		<description>&quot;For a start, let’s get this out of the way: here are detailed instructions on who to phone and shout at. &quot; 

www.laquadrature.net is extremely confusing; it&#039;s probably useful for somebody that followed the issue from the beginning ... 

It would be nice to have a summary of the problem: 

 - what exactly was voted on April 10th ? a link on official EU site would be great: there is a guy I voted for in our EP elections on the list of members of IMCO committee that supposedly were against and I might write to thank him (I understand he voted against the &quot;three strike&quot; approach to fighting &quot;IP piracy&quot;).

 - &quot;Their further impose filters and spyware to internet users&quot; - in the summary from http://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/AnalyseCompromisVersionDiteFinale
but there is no mention of &quot;spyware&quot; in the detailed analysis from the same page.

I might be way off, and completely missed the point, but: 
the detailed analysis sais this: 
&#039;Recital 12c (compromise amendment 4) describes the so-called &quot;preventive&quot; phase of the &quot;graduated response&quot;.&#039;
while the document from here (http://www.laquadrature.net/files/amendements-compromis_ITRE-IMCO_7juil/)    only talks about how the service providers should inform the users about &quot;copyright infringement, other unlawful uses and dissemination of harmful content, and advice and means of protection against risks to personal security&quot; ... 

&quot;Article 22(3) (compromise amendment 5) plans for the standards of surveillance and filtering to be defined by National regulatory authorities under control from the European Commission. The procedure defined in this article does not meet standards of democratic control.&quot; -- while in the document linked in the &quot;Examined amendments&quot; ( 080702 Art 22(3) CA 5.doc ) there is no mention of filtering or surveillance ...

It&#039;s like this: either I don&#039;t understand Legalese, or the site it completely mixed up ...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;For a start, let’s get this out of the way: here are detailed instructions on who to phone and shout at. &#8221; </p>
<p><a href="http://www.laquadrature.net" rel="nofollow">http://www.laquadrature.net</a> is extremely confusing; it&#8217;s probably useful for somebody that followed the issue from the beginning &#8230; </p>
<p>It would be nice to have a summary of the problem: </p>
<p> &#8211; what exactly was voted on April 10th ? a link on official EU site would be great: there is a guy I voted for in our EP elections on the list of members of IMCO committee that supposedly were against and I might write to thank him (I understand he voted against the &#8220;three strike&#8221; approach to fighting &#8220;IP piracy&#8221;).</p>
<p> &#8211; &#8220;Their further impose filters and spyware to internet users&#8221; &#8211; in the summary from <a href="http://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/AnalyseCompromisVersionDiteFinale" rel="nofollow">http://www.laquadrature.net/wiki/AnalyseCompromisVersionDiteFinale</a><br />
but there is no mention of &#8220;spyware&#8221; in the detailed analysis from the same page.</p>
<p>I might be way off, and completely missed the point, but:<br />
the detailed analysis sais this:<br />
&#8216;Recital 12c (compromise amendment 4) describes the so-called &#8220;preventive&#8221; phase of the &#8220;graduated response&#8221;.&#8217;<br />
while the document from here (<a href="http://www.laquadrature.net/files/amendements-compromis_ITRE-IMCO_7juil/" rel="nofollow">http://www.laquadrature.net/files/amendements-compromis_ITRE-IMCO_7juil/</a>)    only talks about how the service providers should inform the users about &#8220;copyright infringement, other unlawful uses and dissemination of harmful content, and advice and means of protection against risks to personal security&#8221; &#8230; </p>
<p>&#8220;Article 22(3) (compromise amendment 5) plans for the standards of surveillance and filtering to be defined by National regulatory authorities under control from the European Commission. The procedure defined in this article does not meet standards of democratic control.&#8221; &#8212; while in the document linked in the &#8220;Examined amendments&#8221; ( 080702 Art 22(3) CA 5.doc ) there is no mention of filtering or surveillance &#8230;</p>
<p>It&#8217;s like this: either I don&#8217;t understand Legalese, or the site it completely mixed up &#8230;</p>
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