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	<title>Comments on: Twice as Fast</title>
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	<description>European Opinion</description>
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		<title>By: The Extraordinary Aside &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/twice-as-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-52526</link>
		<dc:creator>The Extraordinary Aside &#124; afoe &#124; A Fistful of Euros &#124; European Opinion</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Dec 2011 10:59:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=6394#comment-52526</guid>
		<description>[...] has now located 2,326 potential planets during its first 16 months of operation.&#8221; I&#8217;ve written about this before, but it never ceases to amaze. This is what living in the future is [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] has now located 2,326 potential planets during its first 16 months of operation.&#8221; I&#8217;ve written about this before, but it never ceases to amaze. This is what living in the future is [...]</p>
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		<title>By: KB</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/twice-as-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-27656</link>
		<dc:creator>KB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Nov 2009 22:16:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=6394#comment-27656</guid>
		<description>Charly,

&lt;i&gt;How can you measure how long ago they had a common ancestor as you don&#039;t measure time but generations?&lt;/i&gt; Good question. This is the problem of calibrating the &quot;biological clock&quot;. The oldest DNA found on Earth is about 0.5 billion years old. On Mars it would probably be older. It would not be easy to estimate the time of the earliest common ancestor.

&lt;i&gt;Also the time difference between a hospitable Mars and Earth isn&#039;t that large&lt;/i&gt; Perhaps not measured in absolute time, but maybe in relative time. The geological record shows that relatively advanced life forms appeared very shortly after Earth became hospitable to life. It seems to be down to the order of a 100 million years. Since we are ignorant about how DNA based life is created, it is difficult to say if this is surprising or not. It seems though, that life evolved at a more sedate speed later on. Compared to this brief window of evolution, Mars enjoyed a 600 million year long, early period, where it was hospitable to life.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charly,</p>
<p><i>How can you measure how long ago they had a common ancestor as you don&#8217;t measure time but generations?</i> Good question. This is the problem of calibrating the &#8220;biological clock&#8221;. The oldest DNA found on Earth is about 0.5 billion years old. On Mars it would probably be older. It would not be easy to estimate the time of the earliest common ancestor.</p>
<p><i>Also the time difference between a hospitable Mars and Earth isn&#8217;t that large</i> Perhaps not measured in absolute time, but maybe in relative time. The geological record shows that relatively advanced life forms appeared very shortly after Earth became hospitable to life. It seems to be down to the order of a 100 million years. Since we are ignorant about how DNA based life is created, it is difficult to say if this is surprising or not. It seems though, that life evolved at a more sedate speed later on. Compared to this brief window of evolution, Mars enjoyed a 600 million year long, early period, where it was hospitable to life.</p>
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		<title>By: Charly</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/twice-as-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-27644</link>
		<dc:creator>Charly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Nov 2009 23:02:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=6394#comment-27644</guid>
		<description>A simple problem with your statement. How can you measure how long ago they had a common ancestor as you don&#039;t measure time but generations?

Also the time difference between a hospitable Mars and Earth isn&#039;t that large.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A simple problem with your statement. How can you measure how long ago they had a common ancestor as you don&#8217;t measure time but generations?</p>
<p>Also the time difference between a hospitable Mars and Earth isn&#8217;t that large.</p>
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		<title>By: KB</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/twice-as-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-27638</link>
		<dc:creator>KB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 Oct 2009 21:10:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=6394#comment-27638</guid>
		<description>If we find evidence of life on Mars, the interesting question is if it is similar to that on Earth, and if so, how long time ago these life forms shared a common ancestor. If this time is before 3.8 billion years, it would indicate a Martian Origin. If the time was before Earth and Mars were hospitable to life, it would support the &quot;panspermia&quot; hypothesis, which in its modern form says that a passing foreign solar system ( they visit us every 100 million years, with a passage time of 10.000 years) can seed the Oort cloud comets which in turn can seed the planets of our own solar system.

It is considered unlikely that life can survive on comets, but it is considered equally unlikely that advanced life forms could have developed spontaneously on Earth in a less than a couple of hundred million years, which is now the time window of the archeological record.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If we find evidence of life on Mars, the interesting question is if it is similar to that on Earth, and if so, how long time ago these life forms shared a common ancestor. If this time is before 3.8 billion years, it would indicate a Martian Origin. If the time was before Earth and Mars were hospitable to life, it would support the &#8220;panspermia&#8221; hypothesis, which in its modern form says that a passing foreign solar system ( they visit us every 100 million years, with a passage time of 10.000 years) can seed the Oort cloud comets which in turn can seed the planets of our own solar system.</p>
<p>It is considered unlikely that life can survive on comets, but it is considered equally unlikely that advanced life forms could have developed spontaneously on Earth in a less than a couple of hundred million years, which is now the time window of the archeological record.</p>
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		<title>By: Charly</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/twice-as-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-27603</link>
		<dc:creator>Charly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Oct 2009 23:24:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=6394#comment-27603</guid>
		<description>The scientific community doesn&#039;t have one opinion on life starting on earth. It has two. The biologist see it as an almost impossible occurrence. The astronomers think it is so likely that Mars didn&#039;t have time to spread its life to Earth before it self-organized on Earth.

ps. 4.25 billion leads for enough time for Earthly life to be transported by asteroids to a wet Mars. In other words: &quot;there should have been life on Mars&quot;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The scientific community doesn&#8217;t have one opinion on life starting on earth. It has two. The biologist see it as an almost impossible occurrence. The astronomers think it is so likely that Mars didn&#8217;t have time to spread its life to Earth before it self-organized on Earth.</p>
<p>ps. 4.25 billion leads for enough time for Earthly life to be transported by asteroids to a wet Mars. In other words: &#8220;there should have been life on Mars&#8221;.</p>
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		<title>By: KB</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/twice-as-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-27581</link>
		<dc:creator>KB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 21:06:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=6394#comment-27581</guid>
		<description>Brett, the time when life started on Earth has been pushed back to a relatively short time after Earth became hospitable to life. Maybe even as far back as 4.25 billion years ago. See this &lt;a href=&quot;http://richarddawkins.net/article,2810,Did-newborn-Earth-harbour-life,New-Scientist&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;

This has created a problem. How do we explain that life could develop so fast, when we don&#039;t see any evidence of such processes happening now. We know that comets contain Amino Acids, the building blocks of life, and that they bombarded the early Earth, probably creating the oceans. Still, there is a big step from Amino Acids to life itself. 

This is where speculations, that we are all &quot;little green men&quot;, come into the picture. Mars would probably have been hospitable to life long time before Earth. Alternatively, some people speculate that comets not only contain Amino Acids but also primitive life forms. I don&#039;t think there is much support for this theory.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Brett, the time when life started on Earth has been pushed back to a relatively short time after Earth became hospitable to life. Maybe even as far back as 4.25 billion years ago. See this <a href="http://richarddawkins.net/article,2810,Did-newborn-Earth-harbour-life,New-Scientist" rel="nofollow">link</a></p>
<p>This has created a problem. How do we explain that life could develop so fast, when we don&#8217;t see any evidence of such processes happening now. We know that comets contain Amino Acids, the building blocks of life, and that they bombarded the early Earth, probably creating the oceans. Still, there is a big step from Amino Acids to life itself. </p>
<p>This is where speculations, that we are all &#8220;little green men&#8221;, come into the picture. Mars would probably have been hospitable to life long time before Earth. Alternatively, some people speculate that comets not only contain Amino Acids but also primitive life forms. I don&#8217;t think there is much support for this theory.</p>
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		<title>By: Brett</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/twice-as-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-27576</link>
		<dc:creator>Brett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 Oct 2009 16:43:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=6394#comment-27576</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;As a matter of fact, it is now a commonly hold opinion, that the early ( not late as Brostrom says) occurrence of life on Earth, can best be explained if it was seeded from Mars, which was presumably hospitable to life at an earlier time than Earth.&lt;/blockquote&gt;

Not in the scientific community - hell, I&#039;ve never heard this mentioned as anything other than one possible (if unproveable) way of getting life started on Earth. 

For that matter, we don&#039;t know what the &quot;hospitable conditions&quot; were for the early formation of life on Earth - all we know is that is emerged at some point. 

&lt;blockquote&gt;They don’t need to be completely independent, self-regenerating and general like Bostrom suggests. Instead most probably they will be designed to perform very specific tasks (build a space base, or build a radar for example etc. etc.).&lt;/blockquote&gt;

There&#039;s still always the possibility for corruption and/or tampering when you create a program that has extensive learning capabilities.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>As a matter of fact, it is now a commonly hold opinion, that the early ( not late as Brostrom says) occurrence of life on Earth, can best be explained if it was seeded from Mars, which was presumably hospitable to life at an earlier time than Earth.</p></blockquote>
<p>Not in the scientific community &#8211; hell, I&#8217;ve never heard this mentioned as anything other than one possible (if unproveable) way of getting life started on Earth. </p>
<p>For that matter, we don&#8217;t know what the &#8220;hospitable conditions&#8221; were for the early formation of life on Earth &#8211; all we know is that is emerged at some point. </p>
<blockquote><p>They don’t need to be completely independent, self-regenerating and general like Bostrom suggests. Instead most probably they will be designed to perform very specific tasks (build a space base, or build a radar for example etc. etc.).</p></blockquote>
<p>There&#8217;s still always the possibility for corruption and/or tampering when you create a program that has extensive learning capabilities.</p>
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		<title>By: KB</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/twice-as-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-27553</link>
		<dc:creator>KB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 27 Oct 2009 09:07:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=6394#comment-27553</guid>
		<description>Charly, the reason why we will be able to detect more neutrinos with The Antarctic Neutrino Observatory (called &quot;IceCube&quot;)is, that it a lot bigger than the present neutrino observatories. Its detector volume is 1 cubic kilometer.

For signs of extraterrestrial intelligent life, we would look for neutrinos with an energy of 6.3 petaelectron-volts , the so called &quot;Glashow ressonance&quot;. They are not produced by any natural processes. See this 
&lt;a href=&quot;http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:HoRV36AP7CEJ:physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/34283+high+energy+neutrinos+extraterrestrial+life+%22glashow+resonance%22&amp;cd=2&amp;hl=da&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=dk&quot; rel=&quot;nofollow&quot;&gt;link&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Charly, the reason why we will be able to detect more neutrinos with The Antarctic Neutrino Observatory (called &#8220;IceCube&#8221;)is, that it a lot bigger than the present neutrino observatories. Its detector volume is 1 cubic kilometer.</p>
<p>For signs of extraterrestrial intelligent life, we would look for neutrinos with an energy of 6.3 petaelectron-volts , the so called &#8220;Glashow ressonance&#8221;. They are not produced by any natural processes. See this<br />
<a href="http://74.125.77.132/search?q=cache:HoRV36AP7CEJ:physicsworld.com/cws/article/news/34283+high+energy+neutrinos+extraterrestrial+life+%22glashow+resonance%22&amp;cd=2&amp;hl=da&amp;ct=clnk&amp;gl=dk" rel="nofollow">link</a></p>
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		<title>By: Charly</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/twice-as-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-27535</link>
		<dc:creator>Charly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 23:03:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=6394#comment-27535</guid>
		<description>I didn&#039;t mean the missing neutrino but the simple fact that detecting solar neutrino&#039;s is so incredible hard. The sun is next door and produces enormous amounts of neutrino&#039;s and we only detect 1 a month or so. Why would we detect any from CERN. It will only produces a few neutrino&#039;s.
An alien CERN will also only produce a few neutrino&#039;s but much further away. So far away that i doubt that any Alien neutrino will go trough the earth, let alone be detected by the detector.
There is also the high energy angle. The highest energy particles aren&#039;t found at CERN but in cosmic rays. How nature produces them is&#039;t known but that nature produces them is certain and with it the assumption that only intelligent life can make those neutrino&#039;s.
IIRC the plan is to use Cosmic rays to find Higgs if CERN is not high energy enough.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I didn&#8217;t mean the missing neutrino but the simple fact that detecting solar neutrino&#8217;s is so incredible hard. The sun is next door and produces enormous amounts of neutrino&#8217;s and we only detect 1 a month or so. Why would we detect any from CERN. It will only produces a few neutrino&#8217;s.<br />
An alien CERN will also only produce a few neutrino&#8217;s but much further away. So far away that i doubt that any Alien neutrino will go trough the earth, let alone be detected by the detector.<br />
There is also the high energy angle. The highest energy particles aren&#8217;t found at CERN but in cosmic rays. How nature produces them is&#8217;t known but that nature produces them is certain and with it the assumption that only intelligent life can make those neutrino&#8217;s.<br />
IIRC the plan is to use Cosmic rays to find Higgs if CERN is not high energy enough.</p>
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		<title>By: KB</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/twice-as-fast/comment-page-1/#comment-27534</link>
		<dc:creator>KB</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 Oct 2009 21:58:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=6394#comment-27534</guid>
		<description>Eni, I totally agree with you about the economics of space exploration. I was merely skeptical about space colonization, which is a very different matter.

In the short term (100-200 years) it would probably be economic to extract He-3 from the moon to use for fusion energy. In the long term (200-400 years) it could be cheaper to implement technologies which use less energy. The problem is not that such technologies don&#039;t exist at the moment, but that they are too expensive. To take an example, we know very well how to construct a &quot;zero-energy&quot; house. However such a house is unaffordable to most people, and anyways, the typical lifetime of a house in most western countries is about one century.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Eni, I totally agree with you about the economics of space exploration. I was merely skeptical about space colonization, which is a very different matter.</p>
<p>In the short term (100-200 years) it would probably be economic to extract He-3 from the moon to use for fusion energy. In the long term (200-400 years) it could be cheaper to implement technologies which use less energy. The problem is not that such technologies don&#8217;t exist at the moment, but that they are too expensive. To take an example, we know very well how to construct a &#8220;zero-energy&#8221; house. However such a house is unaffordable to most people, and anyways, the typical lifetime of a house in most western countries is about one century.</p>
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