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	<title>Comments on: Katja Gelinsky&#8217;s Peculiar America, Pt. 3</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/katja-gelinskys-peculiar-america-pt-3/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 08:58:59 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: angua</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/katja-gelinskys-peculiar-america-pt-3/#comment-14189</link>
		<dc:creator>angua</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 20 Apr 2006 03:26:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2470#comment-14189</guid>
		<description>To get you started, how do you refute the claim that Left Behind promotes genocide in the Middle East and a particalurly distasteful version of Antisemitism?

Well, I personally refute it by reading the blooming thing, rather than reading scare-mongering about the book from lots of people who haven't read it.

If you read the book, you would realize something that the scare-mongering people seem to miss entirely. It is a work of fiction. It is not a manifesto or a statement of principles or an instruction manual.

What the book says, in short, is that _God_ will cause certain things to happen in the _future_, including mass conversion of the Jews to Christinanity and nasty things to happen in the Middle East. What it does *not* say is that _people_ should go out _now_ and kill or convert Jews or nuke the Middle East.

I personally am offended by the idea that most Jews don't get to go to heaven unless they convert. However, there is a significant  difference between a fictional book that suggests this, and non-fictional instructions to go out, find some Jews, and send them to heaven one way or another.

In other words, and back to the topic of the post, a novel where all Americans are fat, stupid, and perverted is just boring. "News" reporting where all Americans are fat, stupid, and perverted is lying by omission.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To get you started, how do you refute the claim that Left Behind promotes genocide in the Middle East and a particalurly distasteful version of Antisemitism?</p>
<p>Well, I personally refute it by reading the blooming thing, rather than reading scare-mongering about the book from lots of people who haven&#8217;t read it.</p>
<p>If you read the book, you would realize something that the scare-mongering people seem to miss entirely. It is a work of fiction. It is not a manifesto or a statement of principles or an instruction manual.</p>
<p>What the book says, in short, is that _God_ will cause certain things to happen in the _future_, including mass conversion of the Jews to Christinanity and nasty things to happen in the Middle East. What it does *not* say is that _people_ should go out _now_ and kill or convert Jews or nuke the Middle East.</p>
<p>I personally am offended by the idea that most Jews don&#8217;t get to go to heaven unless they convert. However, there is a significant  difference between a fictional book that suggests this, and non-fictional instructions to go out, find some Jews, and send them to heaven one way or another.</p>
<p>In other words, and back to the topic of the post, a novel where all Americans are fat, stupid, and perverted is just boring. &#8220;News&#8221; reporting where all Americans are fat, stupid, and perverted is lying by omission.</p>
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		<title>By: Beau Butts</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/katja-gelinskys-peculiar-america-pt-3/#comment-14188</link>
		<dc:creator>Beau Butts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Apr 2006 22:02:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2470#comment-14188</guid>
		<description>I am going to have some free time in about 10 hours and will attempt to answer your question in full.  A teaser though: we have real anti-semites in this country and the readership of the Left Behind novels is tends to be opposed to them on most everything (the anti-semites tend to belong to a group I will explain in a few hours after work).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am going to have some free time in about 10 hours and will attempt to answer your question in full.  A teaser though: we have real anti-semites in this country and the readership of the Left Behind novels is tends to be opposed to them on most everything (the anti-semites tend to belong to a group I will explain in a few hours after work).</p>
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		<title>By: A</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/katja-gelinskys-peculiar-america-pt-3/#comment-14187</link>
		<dc:creator>A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Apr 2006 19:02:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2470#comment-14187</guid>
		<description>No, really explain a bit. I'm a Buddhist myself, all actions have appropriate consequences is the entire creed. I'd like to learn about the different levels of monotheist psychosis. This seems like a soft underbelly story for Americans, right?

To get you started, how do you refute the claim that Left Behind promotes genocide in the Middle East and a particalurly distasteful version of Antisemitism?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, really explain a bit. I&#8217;m a Buddhist myself, all actions have appropriate consequences is the entire creed. I&#8217;d like to learn about the different levels of monotheist psychosis. This seems like a soft underbelly story for Americans, right?</p>
<p>To get you started, how do you refute the claim that Left Behind promotes genocide in the Middle East and a particalurly distasteful version of Antisemitism?</p>
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		<title>By: Beau Butts</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/katja-gelinskys-peculiar-america-pt-3/#comment-14186</link>
		<dc:creator>Beau Butts</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Apr 2006 10:34:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2470#comment-14186</guid>
		<description>For those who do not know, the Left Behind novels depict a fictionalized version of the End of the World that are primarily marketed to a group of mainly Ccongregationalist Christians (technically they would be fundmanetalists but that theological significane of that term means something that I do not have the space to explain).  To compare them to Mein Kampf is preposterous because they are not a genocidal political manifesto.

  It would also be good to know that their readership does not generally overlap with the what is left of the terrorist right in the United States (who generally have holed up in the Rocky Mountain States while the Left Behind novels are most popular in the South and the Midwest).  It would be nice if individuals on the Eastern end of the Atlantic did not emulate President Bush by spouting off on things they know nothing about.

The Left Behind novels are a somewhat interesting story, but I fear that telling the story would be extremely difficult for a foreign correspondent.  Such a writer would have to explain the difference between Evangelical Christians, Fundamentalist Christians, and the more extremist right wing elements that pop up from time to time in the American landscape.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>For those who do not know, the Left Behind novels depict a fictionalized version of the End of the World that are primarily marketed to a group of mainly Ccongregationalist Christians (technically they would be fundmanetalists but that theological significane of that term means something that I do not have the space to explain).  To compare them to Mein Kampf is preposterous because they are not a genocidal political manifesto.</p>
<p>  It would also be good to know that their readership does not generally overlap with the what is left of the terrorist right in the United States (who generally have holed up in the Rocky Mountain States while the Left Behind novels are most popular in the South and the Midwest).  It would be nice if individuals on the Eastern end of the Atlantic did not emulate President Bush by spouting off on things they know nothing about.</p>
<p>The Left Behind novels are a somewhat interesting story, but I fear that telling the story would be extremely difficult for a foreign correspondent.  Such a writer would have to explain the difference between Evangelical Christians, Fundamentalist Christians, and the more extremist right wing elements that pop up from time to time in the American landscape.</p>
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		<title>By: A</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/katja-gelinskys-peculiar-america-pt-3/#comment-14185</link>
		<dc:creator>A</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 09 Apr 2006 06:42:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2470#comment-14185</guid>
		<description>Maybe a more interesting story would be the 'Left Behind' series, the modern equivalent to 'Mein Kampf'. Americans are crazy for this thrash and few people outside even know about it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Maybe a more interesting story would be the &#8216;Left Behind&#8217; series, the modern equivalent to &#8216;Mein Kampf&#8217;. Americans are crazy for this thrash and few people outside even know about it.</p>
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		<title>By: bsetser</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/katja-gelinskys-peculiar-america-pt-3/#comment-14184</link>
		<dc:creator>bsetser</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 09:56:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2470#comment-14184</guid>
		<description>I often think the US press is guilty of the same kind of reporting.  count the number of stories on french protests, most of which hew closely to the line that France won't take the American style economic medicine that it needs to have a competitive economy, and is hopeless stuck in the 20th century.    Compare that to the number of stories on France's housing boom and domestic-demand led growth ...  if twenty-first century economics is all about borrowing against housing prices to support higher levels of consumption and higher levels of imports, both France and the US are leading practioners, so to speak.   Playing to stereotypes makes for good press, and addresses the biggest risk of any foreign correspondant faces (being totally ignored).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I often think the US press is guilty of the same kind of reporting.  count the number of stories on french protests, most of which hew closely to the line that France won&#8217;t take the American style economic medicine that it needs to have a competitive economy, and is hopeless stuck in the 20th century.    Compare that to the number of stories on France&#8217;s housing boom and domestic-demand led growth &#8230;  if twenty-first century economics is all about borrowing against housing prices to support higher levels of consumption and higher levels of imports, both France and the US are leading practioners, so to speak.   Playing to stereotypes makes for good press, and addresses the biggest risk of any foreign correspondant faces (being totally ignored).</p>
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		<title>By: Tobias Schwarz</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/katja-gelinskys-peculiar-america-pt-3/#comment-14183</link>
		<dc:creator>Tobias Schwarz</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 08 Apr 2006 06:39:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2470#comment-14183</guid>
		<description>&gt;and I don't think it's being apologetic for an area &gt;where transatlantic differences are significant. I &gt;think it's highlighting them.

I'm not sure I would say that the European integration record is a shining example... 

Rüb's clearly not dispatching any party line -  the FAZ is not Die Welt, by far. Still, I think both the differences you are pointing out are the result of an editorial line that's as confused about America these days as the party that is representing much of the FAZ's core demographics, the CDU.

To broaden the issue a little - just looking at the Economist's stance on all issues concerning Bush and Iraq, I am astonished to which extent so-called independet opinion makers are apparently influenced in their (written/published) opinion, by what they *believe* their core customers are thinking - I think the economist's stance at first, and the late turnaround, is completely explicable with a brief look at the composition of their sales figures. I'm guessing a little here, but I'd say, about 40% of their readers are bound to be, or at least vote, Republican.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>>and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s being apologetic for an area >where transatlantic differences are significant. I >think it&#8217;s highlighting them.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure I would say that the European integration record is a shining example&#8230; </p>
<p>Rüb&#8217;s clearly not dispatching any party line -  the FAZ is not Die Welt, by far. Still, I think both the differences you are pointing out are the result of an editorial line that&#8217;s as confused about America these days as the party that is representing much of the FAZ&#8217;s core demographics, the CDU.</p>
<p>To broaden the issue a little - just looking at the Economist&#8217;s stance on all issues concerning Bush and Iraq, I am astonished to which extent so-called independet opinion makers are apparently influenced in their (written/published) opinion, by what they *believe* their core customers are thinking - I think the economist&#8217;s stance at first, and the late turnaround, is completely explicable with a brief look at the composition of their sales figures. I&#8217;m guessing a little here, but I&#8217;d say, about 40% of their readers are bound to be, or at least vote, Republican.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/katja-gelinskys-peculiar-america-pt-3/#comment-14182</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 19:57:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2470#comment-14182</guid>
		<description>"No link?"

The FAZ's web site is so poorly organized that for a long time I simply referred to it was the "German newspaper whose web site could be better organized." It is now the "German newspaper whose web site has marginally improved," but not so much that you should plan on finding and linking to articles quickly. For reference, the piece in question is on page 7 of today's dead-tree edition and is titled "Washington besorgt ueber Europa." If you find a link, please post.

The disjunct between what is "quite obvious" to Charly and what the US government thinks it is doing is precisely the news value of the piece. And indeed, in Washington it may be quite obvious that it is not prescribing democracy; in Moscow it may be quite obvious that the US is bent on encircling and destroying Russia; etc etc etc. That's part of what makes Rüb good; Gelinsky could do the same in the areas she covers, but doesn't.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;No link?&#8221;</p>
<p>The FAZ&#8217;s web site is so poorly organized that for a long time I simply referred to it was the &#8220;German newspaper whose web site could be better organized.&#8221; It is now the &#8220;German newspaper whose web site has marginally improved,&#8221; but not so much that you should plan on finding and linking to articles quickly. For reference, the piece in question is on page 7 of today&#8217;s dead-tree edition and is titled &#8220;Washington besorgt ueber Europa.&#8221; If you find a link, please post.</p>
<p>The disjunct between what is &#8220;quite obvious&#8221; to Charly and what the US government thinks it is doing is precisely the news value of the piece. And indeed, in Washington it may be quite obvious that it is not prescribing democracy; in Moscow it may be quite obvious that the US is bent on encircling and destroying Russia; etc etc etc. That&#8217;s part of what makes Rüb good; Gelinsky could do the same in the areas she covers, but doesn&#8217;t.</p>
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		<title>By: Charly</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/katja-gelinskys-peculiar-america-pt-3/#comment-14181</link>
		<dc:creator>Charly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 14:52:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2470#comment-14181</guid>
		<description>No link?

It is quite obviously that the US government does indeed prescribs democracy for everyone. And with democracy i mean doing what the US wants you to do because on the whole the US is a bit allergic to democracy in foreign countries that don't do what the US wants. See for example Russia, Haiti, Venezuela, Palestina etc.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No link?</p>
<p>It is quite obviously that the US government does indeed prescribs democracy for everyone. And with democracy i mean doing what the US wants you to do because on the whole the US is a bit allergic to democracy in foreign countries that don&#8217;t do what the US wants. See for example Russia, Haiti, Venezuela, Palestina etc.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/katja-gelinskys-peculiar-america-pt-3/#comment-14180</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 07 Apr 2006 13:27:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=2470#comment-14180</guid>
		<description>I lost a long post to the comment gremlins, but the gist of it was this: If all a foreign correspondent is going to do is repeat cliches for the folks back home, why send one in the first place?

Rüb's story today provides a useful contrast: Washington Worried About Europe; "Threats from Islamists" / Democracy Report. According to Rüb's report the US government is concerned that Europe's lack of success integrating Muslims is a danger for international security. The second part concerns the annual State Department report on democracy and human rights around the world, and notes that thet US government does not believe it is prescribing democracy for everyone.

The first part of the story shows that the US government sees Europe differently from how most Germans (as near as I can tell) see it. That's news, and I don't think it's being apologetic for an area where transatlantic differences are significant. I think it's highlighting them.

As is the second part. That the US government does not believe it is doing what most Germans think it is doing is an important piece of data, for people who think about these things. Spelling out the difference, in terms the audience back home can understand, is the mark of a good correspondent.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I lost a long post to the comment gremlins, but the gist of it was this: If all a foreign correspondent is going to do is repeat cliches for the folks back home, why send one in the first place?</p>
<p>Rüb&#8217;s story today provides a useful contrast: Washington Worried About Europe; &#8220;Threats from Islamists&#8221; / Democracy Report. According to Rüb&#8217;s report the US government is concerned that Europe&#8217;s lack of success integrating Muslims is a danger for international security. The second part concerns the annual State Department report on democracy and human rights around the world, and notes that thet US government does not believe it is prescribing democracy for everyone.</p>
<p>The first part of the story shows that the US government sees Europe differently from how most Germans (as near as I can tell) see it. That&#8217;s news, and I don&#8217;t think it&#8217;s being apologetic for an area where transatlantic differences are significant. I think it&#8217;s highlighting them.</p>
<p>As is the second part. That the US government does not believe it is doing what most Germans think it is doing is an important piece of data, for people who think about these things. Spelling out the difference, in terms the audience back home can understand, is the mark of a good correspondent.</p>
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