And would like to downplay the torture report in Iraq. I as many other dutch people value the fact that we live in a country where human rights are highly praised. And when there is only one sign of these rights being violated in our country or by our troops we (inlcuding me) are outraged and want clarification. The same with torture in iraq by us, the Dutch. But to make my point, If the torture scandal is true (its being investigated at this moment) it is not to be compared with the American torture which is in a far different class. Here we are talking about keeping people from sleeping and listing to very loud music, much like the conditions on g. bay, cuba. Wich we do all absolutely resent in holland.

About the dutch philosophy, its very simple. Don’t fight a problem you can’t win. Work the problem. You see it all around in Holland.

Don’t fight drugs, but regulate it.
Don’t fight the sexindustry, but regulate it,

Don’t try to put criminals away for live, but try to educate them to lead a normal live.

Don’t make alcohol forbidden for kids, let them drink from 16 years old let them crash their bikes a couple of times and then when there 18 and know the effects of alcohol make it legal to do a drivers test.

Same in afghanistan, to rebuild a nation you need the suport of all of the population, and since a large part of the population is connected to the taliban in some way, well is it not time to win their trust instead of trying to kill them all and never get the support you need to build this nation?

The New Zealanders operate in Bamiyan province. They do indeed wear soft caps and openly talk to the locals.

So do the Americans in nearby Panjshir province. How do I know this? I was just in both places. The Americans in Panjshir not only wear soft caps … but mostly (in defiance of uniform regulations) wear no caps at all.

Now, your friends made an even stronger claim, that they could “travel to villages where Americans would just get shot at, and are even invited into the homes to have dinner with people that would kill Americans.” That would be odd, since I’ve seen American troops travel freely all over Bamiyan province, where the New Zealanders are stationed. I must admit that I doubt the veracity of your friends’ stories. However, in fairness, since I may be wrong, I would very much like to know in which villages these alleged examples of hospitality towards Kiwis by devoted anti-Americans took place.

In point of fact, New Zealand received responsibility for the PRT in Bamiyan province because the local security situation was so good. The Americans similarly tried to pass responsibility for the Panjshir PRT off to another Coalition nation, but the local governor rejected the presence of any but American troops.

I know this because I recently had the opportunity to have lunch with the governor of Panjshir province.

Now, to be fair to your friends, the New Zealand soldiers operate out of Bagram, and Bagram is a strange place. First, it’s full of fobbits who do indeed have an exaggerated idea of the terrors awaiting them should they step outside the airfield. Second, the local PRT does indeed undertake (IMHO, rather exaggerated) force protection measures when they go outside the wire, although they were recently attacked in the Tagab Valley of Kapisa province. In that sense, I can certainly see how the New Zealanders might gain a distorted view of how Americans operate.

Of course, courtesy towards the Afghans is American policy, but doesn’t always translate. My friend Eduardo Coya (SPC, CTARNG) managed to get himself chewed out by General Eikenberry himself for driving too aggressively in Jalalabad. I’ll also admit that I have been in a up-armored vehicle in Jalalabad that was being driven extremely aggressively. Although I suspect that the fact that the driver was a New Zealander might introduce some irony.

As for the Dutch, I would be very interested to know more about their strategy in Uruzgan. (I may have to break down and pay for the Globe and Mail article.) The strategy discussed in the post sounds exactly like what I observed among American forces in Nangahar and Kunar provinces. I would tend to agree with Huib’s observations above.

I would caution everyone to be aware that the stereotype of the Coolly Efficient SuperBrit is, in fact, largely a stereotype. Which is not to say, of course, that American forces enforce the peace (or conduct counterinsurgency) particularly well. And it is certainly not to argue that Coalition peace enforcement and counterinsurgency strategy and tactics in Afghanistan could not be improved quite markedly on a number of different levels. It is simply to say that I am unsure which Western nation, if any, does it any better.

- It is not true, that the Dutch military don’t wear black sunglasses. A Dutch press photo of PM Balkenende’s visit (August 2006)in my blog “At Home in Europe” is proof: http://huibriethof.blogspot.com/2006/08/disputes-spur-his-critics-karzai-says.html

- During the Dutch ’soft’ mission in the quiet Al-Muthanna province in Iraq (2003/2004), Dutch military intelligence tortured prisoners (revelations in the seriuous Dutch press, November 18, 2006). The same Dutch officers (who were not punished) now work in Afghanistan with the US intervention troops.

In my opinion, the article in the Canadian paper exaggerates the impact of the ‘Dutch philosophy’, so as to contrast the supposed Dutch behaviour with the Canadian one. Which is understandable, within the context of the growing opposition in that country against the bloody expedition the Canadian troops have found themselves in (in Helmand province).

Really? Come on, now. I’m no hawk but please, let’s get serious here. The above line reads like some right-wing parody of spineless liberals.

“My Friends in the New Zealand Army have returned from Afganistan and say the same thing.

They say the Yank soldiers are violent meat heads that just cause all sorts of drama, dressed up like imperial storm troopers and alway pointing guns at people. They say the fastest way to get killed is to be near American troops.

The kiwi troops wear cloth baseball hats instead of Helmets, can travel to villages in their area where Americans would just get shot at, and are even invited into the homes to have dinner with people that would kill Americans.”

Wow. Not surprised but still…

I think it was the Dutch who provided perimiter protection for the Japanese in Samawa, although my memory may have failed here. It is there that the Japanese had to supply and protect a hospital which the Americans had ignored the needs of. They fixed up some schools and provided other humanitarian relief. In Samawa, as I remember from one report, citizens displayed some makeshift signs of thanks to the Japanese troops.

I was opposed to Japan breaking its constitution to do this, but in the end it seems she did her part to help in a situation that is hopelessly mired in arrogance.

They say the Yank soldiers are violent meat heads that just cause all sorts of drama, dressed up like imperial storm troopers and alway pointing guns at people. They say the fastest way to get killed is to be near American troops.

The kiwi troops wear cloth baseball hats instead of Helmets, can travel to villages in their area where Americans would just get shot at, and are even invited into the homes to have dinner with people that would kill Americans.