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	<title>Comments on: Dans la Francophonie</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/dans-la-francophonie/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Douglas Muir</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/dans-la-francophonie/#comment-22021</link>
		<dc:creator>Douglas Muir</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 08:58:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3527#comment-22021</guid>
		<description>@ Geoff, what Paul says.  I visited Laos a couple of years ago and French has definitely lost a lot of ground.  The Communist government discouraged its use for a generation, so hardly anyone under the age of 45 speaks it well.  They're neutral now, and as you say there are some road signs and such, but it looks like French will gradually fade there in favor of other second languages -- English and Chinese.

@Random, I agree with your comment except the part about the government elite speaking English.  Without exception, everyone I've met speaks good French.  I'd say that perhaps 20% have good English and another 30%-40% have some English.  But about half have no English at all.  Even at the highest levels, French still dominates.

Laws, BTW are debated in Kinyarwanda with occasional excursions into French, but written in French.  Official government publications are a mixture -- public proclamations are usually in Kinya, for instance, but the Official Gazette is French.  Laws are definitely not translated into English -- this was a big problem for us!

cheers,


Doug M.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Geoff, what Paul says.  I visited Laos a couple of years ago and French has definitely lost a lot of ground.  The Communist government discouraged its use for a generation, so hardly anyone under the age of 45 speaks it well.  They&#8217;re neutral now, and as you say there are some road signs and such, but it looks like French will gradually fade there in favor of other second languages &#8212; English and Chinese.</p>
<p>@Random, I agree with your comment except the part about the government elite speaking English.  Without exception, everyone I&#8217;ve met speaks good French.  I&#8217;d say that perhaps 20% have good English and another 30%-40% have some English.  But about half have no English at all.  Even at the highest levels, French still dominates.</p>
<p>Laws, BTW are debated in Kinyarwanda with occasional excursions into French, but written in French.  Official government publications are a mixture &#8212; public proclamations are usually in Kinya, for instance, but the Official Gazette is French.  Laws are definitely not translated into English &#8212; this was a big problem for us!</p>
<p>cheers,</p>
<p>Doug M.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy McDonald</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/dans-la-francophonie/#comment-22018</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy McDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:12:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3527#comment-22018</guid>
		<description>And because they were Belgian at a time when Belgium was run by francophones of one stripes or another.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>And because they were Belgian at a time when Belgium was run by francophones of one stripes or another.</p>
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		<title>By: JLS</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/dans-la-francophonie/#comment-22010</link>
		<dc:creator>JLS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:34:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3527#comment-22010</guid>
		<description>Burundi like Rwanda in fact have not reason to speak french because they were never a Frecnh Colony. In only because they were near Zaire.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Burundi like Rwanda in fact have not reason to speak french because they were never a Frecnh Colony. In only because they were near Zaire.</p>
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		<title>By: Paul</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/dans-la-francophonie/#comment-21955</link>
		<dc:creator>Paul</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 12:10:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3527#comment-21955</guid>
		<description>Geoff I'm not an expert but Laos gained its independence in 1949 while African states remained French colonies until the 1960s or even 70s (Djibouti). Then the French maintained their interests (political, economic) in Africa  while in Indochina they had to retreat after Dien Bien Phu. Also consider that in Indochina the communist regimes were not particularly friendly to the west (France included).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Geoff I&#8217;m not an expert but Laos gained its independence in 1949 while African states remained French colonies until the 1960s or even 70s (Djibouti). Then the French maintained their interests (political, economic) in Africa  while in Indochina they had to retreat after Dien Bien Phu. Also consider that in Indochina the communist regimes were not particularly friendly to the west (France included).</p>
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		<title>By: Geoff</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/dans-la-francophonie/#comment-21953</link>
		<dc:creator>Geoff</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 11:04:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3527#comment-21953</guid>
		<description>It's interesting that French is still so successful in Francophone Africa; I visited Laos earlier this year and was expecting to encounter far more French than I did - yes, a lot of road signs in Vientiane were in French and not in English, but it seemed that while most of the Lao people had some English, very few could speak any French at all (a fact that was confirmed by French travellers I spoke to), and apparently the same is true across former French Indochina. Why has French been so much more successful at retaining a foothold in Africa than in Asia?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s interesting that French is still so successful in Francophone Africa; I visited Laos earlier this year and was expecting to encounter far more French than I did - yes, a lot of road signs in Vientiane were in French and not in English, but it seemed that while most of the Lao people had some English, very few could speak any French at all (a fact that was confirmed by French travellers I spoke to), and apparently the same is true across former French Indochina. Why has French been so much more successful at retaining a foothold in Africa than in Asia?</p>
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		<title>By: Doug Merrill</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/dans-la-francophonie/#comment-21952</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug Merrill</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 26 Aug 2008 09:26:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3527#comment-21952</guid>
		<description>Comment rescued, Random.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Comment rescued, Random.</p>
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		<title>By: Random African</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/dans-la-francophonie/#comment-21949</link>
		<dc:creator>Random African</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 23:10:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3527#comment-21949</guid>
		<description>I posted another reply but I think it was lost somewhere in Blog Comment Purgatory.

As far as the language thing, Kinyarwanda is the main everyday one and has been forever. It probably got a boost in the official sphere since 2002 but I don't think the fact that the law is written in it and then translated in French and English changed anything about how it's debated in the parliament or drafted in the ministries.

About French and English, my understanding is that there's 2 dynamics. On one hand, the pre-existing intellectual infrastructure was Francophone. The teachers, most of the public servants, etc.. So most schools have curriculum in French with some intensive English classes. And Public service is probably the same. But on the other hand, the rulers, the top elite are english-speakers who learned French. So English is probably used at the top level of government and gains ground from there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I posted another reply but I think it was lost somewhere in Blog Comment Purgatory.</p>
<p>As far as the language thing, Kinyarwanda is the main everyday one and has been forever. It probably got a boost in the official sphere since 2002 but I don&#8217;t think the fact that the law is written in it and then translated in French and English changed anything about how it&#8217;s debated in the parliament or drafted in the ministries.</p>
<p>About French and English, my understanding is that there&#8217;s 2 dynamics. On one hand, the pre-existing intellectual infrastructure was Francophone. The teachers, most of the public servants, etc.. So most schools have curriculum in French with some intensive English classes. And Public service is probably the same. But on the other hand, the rulers, the top elite are english-speakers who learned French. So English is probably used at the top level of government and gains ground from there.</p>
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		<title>By: Random African</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/dans-la-francophonie/#comment-21947</link>
		<dc:creator>Random African</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 22:28:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3527#comment-21947</guid>
		<description>http://ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=25536

I don't know if English is taking over from French but French is definetly loosing ground slowly, where it matter: in government.
Among the people, Kinyarwanda has always been the default and it's probably regaining some ground too. We shouldn't forget that Swahili is widely spoken too.

I don't think anyone in France is reconsidering anything. I don't see anyone arresting an official of a Security Council Permanent Member because of some support they gave to horrible people.

That said, yes, of course, Rwanda has the best evidence, even if it probably doesn't cancel out some of the French accusations. (of course, the stupidest French accusation is to link Kagame to the genocide by accusing him of shooting down whatshisname's plane. that's a serious case of blaming the victim).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=25536" rel="nofollow">http://ipsnews.net/africa/interna.asp?idnews=25536</a></p>
<p>I don&#8217;t know if English is taking over from French but French is definetly loosing ground slowly, where it matter: in government.<br />
Among the people, Kinyarwanda has always been the default and it&#8217;s probably regaining some ground too. We shouldn&#8217;t forget that Swahili is widely spoken too.</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone in France is reconsidering anything. I don&#8217;t see anyone arresting an official of a Security Council Permanent Member because of some support they gave to horrible people.</p>
<p>That said, yes, of course, Rwanda has the best evidence, even if it probably doesn&#8217;t cancel out some of the French accusations. (of course, the stupidest French accusation is to link Kagame to the genocide by accusing him of shooting down whatshisname&#8217;s plane. that&#8217;s a serious case of blaming the victim).</p>
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		<title>By: Hektor Bim</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/dans-la-francophonie/#comment-21944</link>
		<dc:creator>Hektor Bim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 21:06:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3527#comment-21944</guid>
		<description>What is happening in Rwanda? Is English taking over from French, are they coexisting, or does this mean in practice that Kinyarwanda is the default.

Also, what is the practical effect on the ground of the claim and counterclaim of genocide and murder between France and Rwanda?  (Rwanda seems to have the best of it so far by the available evidence.)  Is anyone in France reconsidering their travel plans?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What is happening in Rwanda? Is English taking over from French, are they coexisting, or does this mean in practice that Kinyarwanda is the default.</p>
<p>Also, what is the practical effect on the ground of the claim and counterclaim of genocide and murder between France and Rwanda?  (Rwanda seems to have the best of it so far by the available evidence.)  Is anyone in France reconsidering their travel plans?</p>
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		<title>By: Random African</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/dans-la-francophonie/#comment-21943</link>
		<dc:creator>Random African</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 25 Aug 2008 19:34:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/?p=3527#comment-21943</guid>
		<description>Few things:

- Rwanda adopted English as an official language in addition to French and Kinyarwanda. Yes, it's partially a payback to France but also influenced by the fact that most of the government grew up in Uganda.

- In Senegal, 80% of the population is fluent in Wolof and the rest probably speak it too. So it doesn't fit next to Kenya and Nigeria.

- The French "engagement" is complicated. There are business interests, local ones which happen to be very good at manipulating the local embassies which in turn influence Paris. Add to that personnal freidnships here and there and of course the Grand Policy of mantaining French prestige and you get that result.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Few things:</p>
<p>- Rwanda adopted English as an official language in addition to French and Kinyarwanda. Yes, it&#8217;s partially a payback to France but also influenced by the fact that most of the government grew up in Uganda.</p>
<p>- In Senegal, 80% of the population is fluent in Wolof and the rest probably speak it too. So it doesn&#8217;t fit next to Kenya and Nigeria.</p>
<p>- The French &#8220;engagement&#8221; is complicated. There are business interests, local ones which happen to be very good at manipulating the local embassies which in turn influence Paris. Add to that personnal freidnships here and there and of course the Grand Policy of mantaining French prestige and you get that result.</p>
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