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	<title>Comments on: China and Protectionism</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/china-and-protectionism/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 08 Jan 2009 09:52:54 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/china-and-protectionism/#comment-7984</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2005 22:02:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1262#comment-7984</guid>
		<description>"we can question the fact that indeed much has changed"

Yes, I was suggesting this in the post. In general across South East Asia this is the line most people are taking.

Incidentally, this piece in the NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/07/business/worldbusiness/07yuan.html?

"For Leon Liu, a manager of the Xingan Quanyi Bamboo and Wooden Products Company, a manufacturer of wooden coat hangers for hotels and expensive retailers, a more valuable yuan will mean that bamboo grown near the company's factory in Rong Jiang Village in southernmost China will become too expensive. He is considering wood imports from Indonesia, and possibly even opening a hanger factory there."

Of course, you can see from my currency post that I don't imagine any yuan 'float' will be that rapid or that dramatic, but the underlying point is sound: as the yuan rises China will itself ride up the value chain, and eventually much of the 'low value' work can even leave China in search of lower wages.

Re-localisation is an ongoing process.

In general I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;we can question the fact that indeed much has changed&#8221;</p>
<p>Yes, I was suggesting this in the post. In general across South East Asia this is the line most people are taking.</p>
<p>Incidentally, this piece in the NYT:</p>
<p><a href="http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/07/business/worldbusiness/07yuan.html?" rel="nofollow">http://www.nytimes.com/2005/05/07/business/worldbusiness/07yuan.html?</a></p>
<p>&#8220;For Leon Liu, a manager of the Xingan Quanyi Bamboo and Wooden Products Company, a manufacturer of wooden coat hangers for hotels and expensive retailers, a more valuable yuan will mean that bamboo grown near the company&#8217;s factory in Rong Jiang Village in southernmost China will become too expensive. He is considering wood imports from Indonesia, and possibly even opening a hanger factory there.&#8221;</p>
<p>Of course, you can see from my currency post that I don&#8217;t imagine any yuan &#8216;float&#8217; will be that rapid or that dramatic, but the underlying point is sound: as the yuan rises China will itself ride up the value chain, and eventually much of the &#8216;low value&#8217; work can even leave China in search of lower wages.</p>
<p>Re-localisation is an ongoing process.</p>
<p>In general I wholeheartedly agree with what you are saying.</p>
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		<title>By: ivan</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/china-and-protectionism/#comment-7983</link>
		<dc:creator>ivan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 May 2005 16:51:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1262#comment-7983</guid>
		<description>I know some textile executives. Every time is see them they talk about "free AND fair trade". I then always ask what is so fair about withholding consumers cheap textile products and about putting poor Chinese textile workers out of a job. If they talk about fair do they think about the real losers? The textile workers in countries like Bangladesh for example? Of course not. They talk about cheap government backed loans for the Chinese textile industry, conveniently forgetting that in a country like Belgium the government still has participations in own companies. Why is it that when we hear talk about "unfair" trade we never here about or from the real losers? Take the decision by the European Commission to launch an investigation into Chinese textile imports to the EU. The only parties invited are manufacturers, producer associations in the EU, suppliers, traders-importers, exporters and industry users. Not consumers, not Chinese textile workers or workers in other developing countries. Talk about unfair practices!
Of course they say, we only want temporary measures, until China stops subsidizing it's industry. But it's only five months ago that the earlier "temporary" measures were lifted. They are seeking permanent protection it seems.
Finally, we can question the fact that indeed much has changed. here is a French textile trader:

"Some industry executives, however, disputed that much had changed. They argue that with the scrapping of quota controls, firms that once disguised their China-made goods as Hong Kong, Macau or Taiwan exports are simply reporting the real country of origin. 

"A large part of this increase is just a switch from declared `Hong Kong origin' to `China origin', rather than an actual increase in China manufacturing," said one French textile trader. "China quotas used to be more expensive than Hong Kong quotas, so people used Hong Kong quotas for goods made in China. What you see is just the reality that used to be the case for many years." As evidence, the trader argues that mainland logistics firms have not seen any large rises in textile shipments from China in recent months."</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I know some textile executives. Every time is see them they talk about &#8220;free AND fair trade&#8221;. I then always ask what is so fair about withholding consumers cheap textile products and about putting poor Chinese textile workers out of a job. If they talk about fair do they think about the real losers? The textile workers in countries like Bangladesh for example? Of course not. They talk about cheap government backed loans for the Chinese textile industry, conveniently forgetting that in a country like Belgium the government still has participations in own companies. Why is it that when we hear talk about &#8220;unfair&#8221; trade we never here about or from the real losers? Take the decision by the European Commission to launch an investigation into Chinese textile imports to the EU. The only parties invited are manufacturers, producer associations in the EU, suppliers, traders-importers, exporters and industry users. Not consumers, not Chinese textile workers or workers in other developing countries. Talk about unfair practices!<br />
Of course they say, we only want temporary measures, until China stops subsidizing it&#8217;s industry. But it&#8217;s only five months ago that the earlier &#8220;temporary&#8221; measures were lifted. They are seeking permanent protection it seems.<br />
Finally, we can question the fact that indeed much has changed. here is a French textile trader:</p>
<p>&#8220;Some industry executives, however, disputed that much had changed. They argue that with the scrapping of quota controls, firms that once disguised their China-made goods as Hong Kong, Macau or Taiwan exports are simply reporting the real country of origin. </p>
<p>&#8220;A large part of this increase is just a switch from declared `Hong Kong origin&#8217; to `China origin&#8217;, rather than an actual increase in China manufacturing,&#8221; said one French textile trader. &#8220;China quotas used to be more expensive than Hong Kong quotas, so people used Hong Kong quotas for goods made in China. What you see is just the reality that used to be the case for many years.&#8221; As evidence, the trader argues that mainland logistics firms have not seen any large rises in textile shipments from China in recent months.&#8221;</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/china-and-protectionism/#comment-7982</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2005 02:43:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1262#comment-7982</guid>
		<description>"have worked to earn as decent a living as they could, some building small companies that provided good jobs and wages to others."

I'm sure Deborah that this is true. But unfortunately if there is one thing that is constant in our human condition it is that we are permanently buffeted by processes of change. So unfortunately what we work hard one day to build up, only gets knocked down the next. This has been with us from the start. Capitalism, or whatever, has changed nothing in this sense.

The German philosopher Heiddeger said we are 'thrown' in the world. That about sums it up for me. It is an existential condition, and there really isn't much we can do about it.

I put things like this since your plea really seems to come from the heart, and not from any particular concern with any particular decision. It seems a more general malaise which preoccupies you.

Of course we may find ourselves enraged by things we don't like, but if there is nothing really to be done, then that inner rage will only eat us up. We only end up harming ourselves allowing ourselves to be lead by these feelings. In this sense some reconciliation with reality is not only desireable but necessary.

Yes the globalisation processes traversing our planet are producing changes in the lives of people who do not understand were these changes come from. Is this unjust: yes, in a certain sense it is. Is there anything to be done to stop this from happening: I doubt it.

If we all close ourselves off from each other not only will we lose the benefits of richer communication, we will also be poorer to boot.

I'm afraid all those politicians who have so lost your confidence are all we have. The difference between the EU or US citizen who loses their business or their job as a result of a globalisation process and those poor people in Indonesia who lost everything in the wake of the Tsunami, is that we have errected institutional structures backed by law and political processes to give us some protection. This, I humbly submit is where you need to look if you, as you seem to suggest, are one of those adversly affected by globalisation.

"Even the Chinese workers are receiving little for their individual efforts."

It may be little, but it's a lot more than they previously received.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;have worked to earn as decent a living as they could, some building small companies that provided good jobs and wages to others.&#8221;</p>
<p>I&#8217;m sure Deborah that this is true. But unfortunately if there is one thing that is constant in our human condition it is that we are permanently buffeted by processes of change. So unfortunately what we work hard one day to build up, only gets knocked down the next. This has been with us from the start. Capitalism, or whatever, has changed nothing in this sense.</p>
<p>The German philosopher Heiddeger said we are &#8216;thrown&#8217; in the world. That about sums it up for me. It is an existential condition, and there really isn&#8217;t much we can do about it.</p>
<p>I put things like this since your plea really seems to come from the heart, and not from any particular concern with any particular decision. It seems a more general malaise which preoccupies you.</p>
<p>Of course we may find ourselves enraged by things we don&#8217;t like, but if there is nothing really to be done, then that inner rage will only eat us up. We only end up harming ourselves allowing ourselves to be lead by these feelings. In this sense some reconciliation with reality is not only desireable but necessary.</p>
<p>Yes the globalisation processes traversing our planet are producing changes in the lives of people who do not understand were these changes come from. Is this unjust: yes, in a certain sense it is. Is there anything to be done to stop this from happening: I doubt it.</p>
<p>If we all close ourselves off from each other not only will we lose the benefits of richer communication, we will also be poorer to boot.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m afraid all those politicians who have so lost your confidence are all we have. The difference between the EU or US citizen who loses their business or their job as a result of a globalisation process and those poor people in Indonesia who lost everything in the wake of the Tsunami, is that we have errected institutional structures backed by law and political processes to give us some protection. This, I humbly submit is where you need to look if you, as you seem to suggest, are one of those adversly affected by globalisation.</p>
<p>&#8220;Even the Chinese workers are receiving little for their individual efforts.&#8221;</p>
<p>It may be little, but it&#8217;s a lot more than they previously received.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Deborah</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/china-and-protectionism/#comment-7981</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 May 2005 02:10:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1262#comment-7981</guid>
		<description>While politicians in countries around the world posture and indulge in power struggles, supported by the individuals and organizations that have money, it is the common working people in France, in the U.S., and in many other countries, even China, who are losing.  These are people who, for all their lives, have worked to earn as decent a living as they could, some building small companies that provided good jobs and wages to others. Up until the last several years, countries supported their own businesses, and citizens worked to build wealth, confident that they would be rewarded and supported for their hard work.  This is not the situation anymore.    Consumers cannot continue to consume when they have no job, and more and more individuals are finding themselves in this situation. Even the Chinese workers are receiving little for their individual efforts.  On top of it, China's leaders are starting to press their economic advantage. I fail to see how this situation is going to bode well for the vast majority of individuals world-wide in the future, both in terms of freedom and quality of life, regardless of trade agreements, protectionism, lack of it, or any other political maneuvers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>While politicians in countries around the world posture and indulge in power struggles, supported by the individuals and organizations that have money, it is the common working people in France, in the U.S., and in many other countries, even China, who are losing.  These are people who, for all their lives, have worked to earn as decent a living as they could, some building small companies that provided good jobs and wages to others. Up until the last several years, countries supported their own businesses, and citizens worked to build wealth, confident that they would be rewarded and supported for their hard work.  This is not the situation anymore.    Consumers cannot continue to consume when they have no job, and more and more individuals are finding themselves in this situation. Even the Chinese workers are receiving little for their individual efforts.  On top of it, China&#8217;s leaders are starting to press their economic advantage. I fail to see how this situation is going to bode well for the vast majority of individuals world-wide in the future, both in terms of freedom and quality of life, regardless of trade agreements, protectionism, lack of it, or any other political maneuvers.</p>
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