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	<title>Comments on: A modest proposal for CAP reform</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/a-modest-proposal-for-cap-reform/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 01:17:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Aunt Elma</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/a-modest-proposal-for-cap-reform/#comment-10752</link>
		<dc:creator>Aunt Elma</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 Sep 2005 01:10:57 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1867#comment-10752</guid>
		<description>Regarding Scott's comment that all 0f his relatives left farming at the earliest opportunity- not quite correct. I have one brother who left farming very reluctantly and never would have if he could have purchased enough land. I know many people whose #1 lifestyle choice is farming and always will be. Many of them are younger people who leave farming for the same reason my brother did. Compared to many of the European immigrants these Canadians are at a disadvantage because real estate prices are so astronomically higher in at least some parts of Europe. My first European B&#038;B guests were from Ireland. They had a cottage on a tiny plot which they purchased about 14 years earlier. They had renovated and added over the years but they could now sell for the price of a whole dairy farm in Manitoba. And quite understandably for me many people would rather live in the middle of nowhere than crowded on every side.
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Regarding Scott&#8217;s comment that all 0f his relatives left farming at the earliest opportunity- not quite correct. I have one brother who left farming very reluctantly and never would have if he could have purchased enough land. I know many people whose #1 lifestyle choice is farming and always will be. Many of them are younger people who leave farming for the same reason my brother did. Compared to many of the European immigrants these Canadians are at a disadvantage because real estate prices are so astronomically higher in at least some parts of Europe. My first European B&#038;B guests were from Ireland. They had a cottage on a tiny plot which they purchased about 14 years earlier. They had renovated and added over the years but they could now sell for the price of a whole dairy farm in Manitoba. And quite understandably for me many people would rather live in the middle of nowhere than crowded on every side.</p>
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		<title>By: John Emerson</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/a-modest-proposal-for-cap-reform/#comment-10751</link>
		<dc:creator>John Emerson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 17 Sep 2005 19:16:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1867#comment-10751</guid>
		<description>I agree with Scott about farming as a vocation, but I can testify that many farmers really do love to farm, despite the hard work. Around here (Minnesota) fluctuations of commodity prices, interest rates, and gasoline prices drive most of them out of business, but it's unwillingly. (This is a rationalization, of course, from an economic point of view -- too many small, undercapitalized enterprises.) 

A passable farmer can normally make quite a bit more money doing something else (e.g. trucking, carpentry), and those who stay in the biz as independent farmers often do so at a loss, taking outside jobs to support their farms.

According to my truckdriver ex-farmer friend, the only people who can stay in business farming here are "Amish", who do so by working long lowpaid hours including child labor, never borrowing from banks, minimizing cash purchases (e.g. gasoline and pesticides), and astonishing frugality (not buying shoes for the kids until there's they go to work or school).

The politics and economics of agriculture is quite a mess. The conventional wisdom is that it should be globalized and rationalized like everything else. I don't like that, but formulating an alternative program is difficult.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Scott about farming as a vocation, but I can testify that many farmers really do love to farm, despite the hard work. Around here (Minnesota) fluctuations of commodity prices, interest rates, and gasoline prices drive most of them out of business, but it&#8217;s unwillingly. (This is a rationalization, of course, from an economic point of view &#8212; too many small, undercapitalized enterprises.) </p>
<p>A passable farmer can normally make quite a bit more money doing something else (e.g. trucking, carpentry), and those who stay in the biz as independent farmers often do so at a loss, taking outside jobs to support their farms.</p>
<p>According to my truckdriver ex-farmer friend, the only people who can stay in business farming here are &#8220;Amish&#8221;, who do so by working long lowpaid hours including child labor, never borrowing from banks, minimizing cash purchases (e.g. gasoline and pesticides), and astonishing frugality (not buying shoes for the kids until there&#8217;s they go to work or school).</p>
<p>The politics and economics of agriculture is quite a mess. The conventional wisdom is that it should be globalized and rationalized like everything else. I don&#8217;t like that, but formulating an alternative program is difficult.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/a-modest-proposal-for-cap-reform/#comment-10750</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 12:30:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1867#comment-10750</guid>
		<description>Well then what the heck are they doing migrating to Canada, eh?

I don't think the Estonians are migrating to Canada. Estonians as such are probably headed for Tallinn or Tartu (see, "farm, can't keep them down on"), and such Russian-speakers as remain are headed for points east.

As for Germans who actually get into farming, maybe it's the scale of things in North America that's appealing. Also, if they're Spätaussiedler, then they're probably coming from places like Ukraine, central Russia and Kazakhstan that are physically and meteorologically much more like prairie Canada than present-day Germany.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well then what the heck are they doing migrating to Canada, eh?</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think the Estonians are migrating to Canada. Estonians as such are probably headed for Tallinn or Tartu (see, &#8220;farm, can&#8217;t keep them down on&#8221;), and such Russian-speakers as remain are headed for points east.</p>
<p>As for Germans who actually get into farming, maybe it&#8217;s the scale of things in North America that&#8217;s appealing. Also, if they&#8217;re Spätaussiedler, then they&#8217;re probably coming from places like Ukraine, central Russia and Kazakhstan that are physically and meteorologically much more like prairie Canada than present-day Germany.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Martens</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/a-modest-proposal-for-cap-reform/#comment-10749</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Sep 2005 02:56:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1867#comment-10749</guid>
		<description>Well then what the heck are they doing migrating to Canada?  I can't imagine the margins are a whole lot larger, and I can easily imagine the real gains to be a lot smaller in my country.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well then what the heck are they doing migrating to Canada?  I can&#8217;t imagine the margins are a whole lot larger, and I can easily imagine the real gains to be a lot smaller in my country.</p>
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		<title>By: Doug</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/a-modest-proposal-for-cap-reform/#comment-10748</link>
		<dc:creator>Doug</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 12 Sep 2005 21:46:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1867#comment-10748</guid>
		<description>I biked across Estonia. It's every bit as empty as the Hairy Trib says - and that was in western and central Estonia. I imagine that the poorer, eastern bits are even emptier.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I biked across Estonia. It&#8217;s every bit as empty as the Hairy Trib says - and that was in western and central Estonia. I imagine that the poorer, eastern bits are even emptier.</p>
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		<title>By: Jackmormon</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/a-modest-proposal-for-cap-reform/#comment-10747</link>
		<dc:creator>Jackmormon</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Sep 2005 07:00:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1867#comment-10747</guid>
		<description>There's still a kind of mystique about Canada in Germany.  The airport in Whitehorse, Yukon lengthened its runways especially to accomodate the weekly jumbo flight in from Frankfurt, amazingly enough. (I found out that it was almost cheaper to fly into Whitehorse from Frankfurt than from San Francisco.)  My relatives up there report that many Germans own summer cabins; they also note, stereotypically enough, that the Germans' cabins are much better put together than the average Yukoner's.

When I lived in Germany, I was astonished to see all of the little gardening huts--I've totally forgotten the German for them. One of my friends was writing a master's on the history of them, so I really should remember the right word.  They seemed to indicate to me, an outsider who never really accultured, mind you, a nostaglic attachment to living on the land.  (And then, of course, one of my friends gave me a Karl May book as a going-away gift.) 

As for the German govt supporting such return to the (Canadian) land, I have no good ideas.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There&#8217;s still a kind of mystique about Canada in Germany.  The airport in Whitehorse, Yukon lengthened its runways especially to accomodate the weekly jumbo flight in from Frankfurt, amazingly enough. (I found out that it was almost cheaper to fly into Whitehorse from Frankfurt than from San Francisco.)  My relatives up there report that many Germans own summer cabins; they also note, stereotypically enough, that the Germans&#8217; cabins are much better put together than the average Yukoner&#8217;s.</p>
<p>When I lived in Germany, I was astonished to see all of the little gardening huts&#8211;I&#8217;ve totally forgotten the German for them. One of my friends was writing a master&#8217;s on the history of them, so I really should remember the right word.  They seemed to indicate to me, an outsider who never really accultured, mind you, a nostaglic attachment to living on the land.  (And then, of course, one of my friends gave me a Karl May book as a going-away gift.) </p>
<p>As for the German govt supporting such return to the (Canadian) land, I have no good ideas.</p>
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		<title>By: Randy McDonald</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/a-modest-proposal-for-cap-reform/#comment-10746</link>
		<dc:creator>Randy McDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 11 Sep 2005 01:00:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=1867#comment-10746</guid>
		<description>Actually, they're going east instead http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/08/25/news/farmers.php as Graham Bowley's International Herald Tribune article "British farmers grow roots in Estonia" indicates. Sample text:

"We thought there was a hard time ahead for farming and we had to do something different," said Clifton Lampard, a farmer from Leicestershire who bought a bankrupt dairy farm near Turi, an hour south of Estonia's capital, Tallinn, in 2002. 

A year later, he bought two more Estonian farms with a group of Norwegian and English investors and, with his wife, helps to run them alongside the farm they still rent in England. 

"I came out here and thought, this all adds up," he says.

The reason it added up can be seen today in the green countryside around Turi and Tartu. Dilapidated Soviet barns and lines of pine forests, home to storks and wild boar, punctuate vast stretches of land, most of it untouched since the collapse of the old planned economy.

The newcomers discovered that if they cleared the soil and worked it, the local government would give it to them more or less for free. The land is so plentiful and cheap that many of the foreigners cannot always even say exactly how much real estate they own. For them, it was a pleasing contrast to Britain's crowded and expensive isle.

"I was selling land in Scotland for over £2,000 an acre and buying it in Estonia for £25 an acre," said Neil Godsman, from Aberdeenshire, who owns a dairy and grain farm in central Estonia.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually, they&#8217;re going east instead <a href="http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/08/25/news/farmers.php" rel="nofollow">http://www.iht.com/articles/2005/08/25/news/farmers.php</a> as Graham Bowley&#8217;s International Herald Tribune article &#8220;British farmers grow roots in Estonia&#8221; indicates. Sample text:</p>
<p>&#8220;We thought there was a hard time ahead for farming and we had to do something different,&#8221; said Clifton Lampard, a farmer from Leicestershire who bought a bankrupt dairy farm near Turi, an hour south of Estonia&#8217;s capital, Tallinn, in 2002. </p>
<p>A year later, he bought two more Estonian farms with a group of Norwegian and English investors and, with his wife, helps to run them alongside the farm they still rent in England. </p>
<p>&#8220;I came out here and thought, this all adds up,&#8221; he says.</p>
<p>The reason it added up can be seen today in the green countryside around Turi and Tartu. Dilapidated Soviet barns and lines of pine forests, home to storks and wild boar, punctuate vast stretches of land, most of it untouched since the collapse of the old planned economy.</p>
<p>The newcomers discovered that if they cleared the soil and worked it, the local government would give it to them more or less for free. The land is so plentiful and cheap that many of the foreigners cannot always even say exactly how much real estate they own. For them, it was a pleasing contrast to Britain&#8217;s crowded and expensive isle.</p>
<p>&#8220;I was selling land in Scotland for over £2,000 an acre and buying it in Estonia for £25 an acre,&#8221; said Neil Godsman, from Aberdeenshire, who owns a dairy and grain farm in central Estonia.</p>
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		<title>By: Pat Patterson</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/europe-and-the-world/a-modest-proposal-for-cap-reform/#comment-10745</link>
		<dc:creator>Pat Patterson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 10 Sep 2005 13:39:10 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>No, actually we appoint our fellow citizens, black or otherwise to the office of Secretary of State and head of the Joint Chiefs.  Even Colin Powell noted that if his parents had chosen to go to Canada or Great Britain he probably would have retired as a senior NCO.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No, actually we appoint our fellow citizens, black or otherwise to the office of Secretary of State and head of the Joint Chiefs.  Even Colin Powell noted that if his parents had chosen to go to Canada or Great Britain he probably would have retired as a senior NCO.</p>
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