Comments on: What’s left of France

By: Transatlantic Comparisons For Scare-Mongering » The Moderate Voice

Transatlantic Comparisons For Scare-Mongering » The Moderate Voice — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 15:11:23 +0000

[...] perhaps France is to the right of the United States? Emmanuel responds in A Fistful of Euros to Ezra: France is also a country where insulting the flag is a criminal offense, where the level [...]

By: Atlantic Review

Atlantic Review — Sat, 03 Nov 2007 14:10:11 +0000

Is France More Conservative than the United States?…

German politicians and pundits sometimes make reference to the United States to score points in domestic debates. US politicians and pundits don’t use Germany in similar ways. They prefer France. Excerpts from a dialogue between two Americans and a Fr…

By: Esurnir

Esurnir — Tue, 30 Oct 2007 08:20:55 +0000

Personal testimony : Went for a few years in a religious Catholic french school : The catechism accounted for one and a half hour of the week and -sometime- (4 time a year perhaps) there may be a ceremony where the class attended. To say the least it’s not overwhelming.

By: stnemmoc

stnemmoc — Sun, 28 Oct 2007 04:47:09 +0000

Ah, your link also shows that American acceptance of gays is more closely aligned with Poland than it is with the Western European countries listed. Anyway, if your point was that Americans tend to oversimplify politics in Europe I’d have to agree. I’m pretty sure I do this all the time. But when we talk about France especially there are usually all kinds of wild allegations. (Only because you are traitors to freedom! or something…)

By: Emmanuel

Emmanuel — Sat, 27 Oct 2007 18:18:54 +0000

Coujou: only been to public schools also but my understanding is that at least a minimal courseload (i.e. a few hours each week) of religious teaching is mandatory when you attend a private (religious) school. Other religious activities are optional. It is the case, at least, for the few private institutions whose websites I visited for confirmation.

Stet: it *is* illegal, at least as far as the State administration is concerned.

Alex: one could argue that they used to vote for the communists in some areas, I guess, but nowadays they are firmly right-wing. Communist vote has all but disappeared, except in some surburban bastions. Or did you have some specific example in mind?

David: well, maybe they *dream* about it, but that’s because they don’t fully appreciate the complexity of European systems (or, at least, of the French system). Sure, American progressives would love to switch for a European-style welfare system. But I’m not certain they would readily accept the offer if it means *also* importing such aspects of the French institutional arrangements as nastier policies towards immigrants, more constrained civil liberties or a less open government (forgedabout the Freedom of Information Act, for instance). Not sure there is necessarily a tradeoff involved here but the French system is way more complex than Americans usually think it is.

Scott: my point exactly.

stnemmoc: now, Americans are much more religious than the French. No question about it.
http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/archives/individual/2007_10/012351.php

What I meant was that it doesn’t preclude the French system from presenting some features which don’t square well with the “Godless, atheist country” cliché. All the more so since the overwhelming majority of private schools receive public subsidies.

As for affirmative action, it seems to me that polls confirm that a much higher proportion Americans support it in abstracto.

By: stnemmoc

stnemmoc — Fri, 26 Oct 2007 16:14:48 +0000

I think your statistic about affirmative action needs some context. Polling Report has a list of recent polls related to race/ethnicity here: http://www.pollingreport.com/race.htm

Ctrl+F (or whatever hotkey) and search the page for “affirmative action”.

I’m not sure what to make of the religious schools, but that Americans are more religious than the French just seems like common sense to me. That same website says something like 75% of us (Americans) believe in angels, and 66% think that creationism is either “probably” or “definitely” true. But having never been to France, I could be wrong, I guess.

By: Scott Guye

Scott Guye — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 19:32:03 +0000

I don’t know if it’s simply attempting to pigeonhole a country in the context of a political tendancy as much as completely simplifying France and ignoring the incredibly complicated politics there (as with just about any country). Since we are on the French topic, they do have strong liberal tendancies on social issues, but when it comes to issues such as immigration, would be considered very conservative by American standards. Adding U.S. democratic senators wouldn’t make a country liberal, and I think the quoted comment shows a ignorance or simplification of another political structure that is troubling in a presidential candidate.

By: David Weman

David Weman — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 11:02:46 +0000

Disagree. Any western european country is a US progressive’s wet dream.

By: Alex

Alex — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 09:46:47 +0000

And frankly, there are plenty of people in France whose attitude towards guns, dogs, pickup trucks and general peasant grumpiness ought to delight any Republican.

Trouble is, they all vote Communist!

By: stet

stet — Wed, 24 Oct 2007 08:47:31 +0000

France is a country in which having public authorities displaying their information in the language spoken by neighborhood inhabitants (as in, say, New York?) is odd to most people and, sadly, is currently on its way to become offensively illegal. Who’s at the left of whom?