Comments on: Ukrainian Disappointment.. http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/ukrainian-disappointment/ European Opinion Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:39:25 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Will Baird http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/ukrainian-disappointment/#comment-17260 Will Baird Tue, 03 Apr 2007 21:42:13 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/ukrainian-disappointment#comment-17260 Based on looking at it as intimately as we - my wife who is Ukrainian and I - do from sources in country...well, let's just say that NONE of the participants have covered themselves in glory. The Orangers have made a total hash of it and made no progress to fixing things. Then the Blue team got back in power when the public got angry over that hash. Now the Blues are trying to move Ukraine back into Russian orbit. The EU's softpower isn't being applied here. You all have decided that Ukraine isn't worth it. That, IMNSHO, is dooming Ukraine's experiment in democracy more than anything. Ukrainians really wanted to be part of the EU, in my experience, but were told no...so why should they care anymore? Those that do care have just decided they're leaving now from what we've heard. can't say that I blame them: we're in the process of extracting family as fast as humanly, or at least US State Dept, allowable. BTW, the US is less than useful here. We're still rather feared by people over the age of 40. Seriously. Based on looking at it as intimately as we - my wife who is Ukrainian and I - do from sources in country…well, let’s just say that NONE of the participants have covered themselves in glory.

The Orangers have made a total hash of it and made no progress to fixing things. Then the Blue team got back in power when the public got angry over that hash. Now the Blues are trying to move Ukraine back into Russian orbit.

The EU’s softpower isn’t being applied here. You all have decided that Ukraine isn’t worth it. That, IMNSHO, is dooming Ukraine’s experiment in democracy more than anything. Ukrainians really wanted to be part of the EU, in my experience, but were told no…so why should they care anymore?

Those that do care have just decided they’re leaving now from what we’ve heard. can’t say that I blame them: we’re in the process of extracting family as fast as humanly, or at least US State Dept, allowable.

BTW, the US is less than useful here. We’re still rather feared by people over the age of 40. Seriously.

]]> By: Global Voices Online » Blog Archive » Ukraine: Between Revolutions http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/ukrainian-disappointment/#comment-17253 Global Voices Online » Blog Archive » Ukraine: Between Revolutions Mon, 02 Apr 2007 23:14:06 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/ukrainian-disappointment#comment-17253 [...] Fistful of Euros writes about Ukraine, and about revolutions eating their children, and about “shift[ing] away from [...] [...] Fistful of Euros writes about Ukraine, and about revolutions eating their children, and about “shift[ing] away from [...]

]]> By: playertwo http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/ukrainian-disappointment/#comment-17252 playertwo Mon, 02 Apr 2007 22:35:56 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/ukrainian-disappointment#comment-17252 i wonder if that is what they are really living for. it seems to me that people are just cutting straight to the liberal utopia part and not the nuts and bolts part. they want to be american democrats, not founding fathers. hence the adoration of eu membership, whatever that means.. we have 24/7 worldwide belittlement of freedom, internet censorship by the left everywhere to trivialize people like W and his "concerns" with "men" like sh who stuff thousands into holes for the socialist revolution.my grandma used to work for charities in Detroit and told me she quit once she saw supposedly poor children taking sandwiches and eating just the meat while throwing the bread to the ground. this is the ground youre trying to plant your revolution in. its not even cool enough to be dirt, instead its a lazy weakling staring at you waiting for you to unload the free cheese. unfortunately it takes thousands dying for most to "get it". After years of marx plus mtv it doesnt surprise me that ukraine cant tie its shoelaces. i wonder if that is what they are really living for. it seems to me that people are just cutting straight to the liberal utopia part and not the nuts and bolts part. they want to be american democrats, not founding fathers.
hence the adoration of eu membership, whatever that means..
we have 24/7 worldwide belittlement of freedom, internet censorship by the left everywhere to trivialize people like W and his “concerns” with “men” like sh who stuff thousands into holes for the socialist revolution.my grandma used to work for charities in Detroit and told me she quit once she saw supposedly poor children taking sandwiches and eating just the meat while throwing the bread to the ground.
this is the ground youre trying to plant your revolution in. its not even cool enough to be dirt, instead its a lazy weakling staring at you waiting for you to unload the free cheese.
unfortunately it takes thousands dying for most to “get it”. After years of marx plus mtv it doesnt surprise me that ukraine cant tie its shoelaces.

]]> By: Doug M. http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/ukrainian-disappointment/#comment-17251 Doug M. Mon, 02 Apr 2007 05:30:23 +0000 http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/the-european-union/ukrainian-disappointment#comment-17251 Alex, this cuts both ways. IME there are a lot of people in Eastern Europe who are tired of revolutions and who just want to live in -- one hears this phrase again and again -- "a normal country". That the long, slow slog towards building liberal institutions in profoundly unsexy -- that, I grant, no question. But don't confuse the trip with the destination. What the EU has to offer is inspiring. Peace, prosperity, jobs, and the chance to live wherever you like... those are pretty powerful. They're what people have revolutions *for*. Doug M. Alex, this cuts both ways. IME there are a lot of people in Eastern Europe who are tired of revolutions and who just want to live in — one hears this phrase again and again — “a normal country”.

That the long, slow slog towards building liberal institutions in profoundly unsexy — that, I grant, no question. But don’t confuse the trip with the destination. What the EU has to offer is inspiring. Peace, prosperity, jobs, and the chance to live wherever you like… those are pretty powerful. They’re what people have revolutions *for*.

Doug M.

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