Comments on: North Sea neuroses

By: Chris Cooke

Chris Cooke — Sat, 16 Dec 2006 20:30:07 +0000

Thanks for an interesting article!

I wouldn’t say that the British are obsessed with Germany. The English, perhaps, the ones near London anyway, but not the British. And it’s not an obsession in the least: just a joke I think, a relaxed, wry, quiet conviction that some Germans haven’t put Nazism quite as much behind them as they like to think. However I could understand how an outsider could get the impression that what London thinks is what Britain thinks: almost all the British media is based there.

By the way, I have never heard the term “PanzlerKardinal” before; it was not widespread in the British press (the word is far too long and far too foreign to catch on in the popular press); the term popularised in the British tabloids was rather “Papa Nazi” (also “Papa Razzi”). And personally I think his right wing rule of recent years in the Catholic church, his campaigns against gays for instance, give the name a little ring of truth.

Anyway… here in Edinburgh every street has a few cars with German number plates parked in it, and my University department is always packed with Germans; I wouldn’t have it any other way.

By: Dr. Minorka

Dr. Minorka — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 15:17:10 +0000

“Personally, I think that is relevant information about the man, as is the fact he grew up in Nazi Germany - after all, what should the paper have said he was doing then?”
Ach, so! So, being a children, a young boy, a teenager in Hitler’s Germany is an appropriate basis to call him a “Panzlerkardinal”?
“Following his fourteenth birthday in 1941, Ratzinger was enrolled in the Hitler Youth (a paramilitary organization of the Nazi Party) - membership being legally required after December 1936.[2] -, but was an unenthusiastic member and refused to attend meetings. His father was a bitter enemy of Nazism, believing it conflicted with the Catholic faith. In 1941, one of Ratzinger’s cousins, a child with Down syndrome, was killed by the Nazi regime in its campaign of eugenics. In 1943 while still in seminary, he was drafted at age 16 into the German anti-aircraft corps. Ratzinger then trained in the German infantry, but a subsequent illness precluded him from the usual rigors of military duty. As the Allied front drew closer to his post in 1945, he returned to his family’s home in Traunstein after his unit had ceased to exist,…” (Wikipedia)

[It wasn't why they called him the Panzerkardinal, rather this resulted from his personality and policy as head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith in the early '80s.]

By: Colin Reid

Colin Reid — Tue, 12 Dec 2006 07:26:06 +0000

Then again, the Scots hate the English, northerners hate southerners, Chelsea supporters hate Arsenal supporters… it seems traditional in the UK (and some of its former colonies) to hold an attitude to outsiders that isn’t so much Balkan-style passionate hatred as the grumpy disdain of an irritable old man, with a reflex action of carping and whingeing as soon as the outsider is out of earshot. Maybe Germans don’t do this quite as much, as casual xenophobia has been shocked out of them by history to some extent, and those who really hate foreigners do so in a more earnest way.

By: brian

brian — Mon, 11 Dec 2006 19:18:07 +0000

Ihave travelled widely in Germany,and speak some Germany learned many years ago. Hardly useful as English is widely spoken everywhere…and what a contrast that is to monoglot England”". As
An Australian ,I find the Germany have wildly inacurate views of what Australian attitudes to the English may be.
They fancy we may have a familial relationship to the English,and are mystified at the mixture of disdain a,scorn ,loathing and derision which are the mainline feelings of most Australians to the English .
Some Australians I met,at a German dinner party ,almost fell off their chairs with laughter when one of the Germans present tried to make a serious analysis of British food from a recent experience.
Nothing causes great mirth in Australia than discussions about British food !
None of this is understood by the Germans,and efforts to see Australians as being “sort of” American evoke real concern. Most Australians have an even poor view of the US these days than of the UK.!

By: Joerg

Joerg — Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:29:06 +0000

The link about the World Cup and the beer:
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17302491&method=full&siteid=94762&headline=beer-we-go–name_page.html

By: Joerg

Joerg — Mon, 11 Dec 2006 15:27:51 +0000

“Now, it is a truism that Britain and Germany share a mutual obsession.”

I’d say that obsession is primarily “just” football.

And I put “just” in quotation marks, since it is a big deal indeed.
+ The role of football as a form of patriotism for Germany, England, Scotland, Wales, Northern Ireland….
+ Wembley…
Though, there have not been any battles between English and German hooligans at the world cup. Despite the huge alcohol intact by Germans, Brits and everyone else. Everybody got along. The English loved our beer. And we admired their thirst:
Nuremburg City official Peter Murrmann said: “The English proved themselves world champs. They practically drank us dry.”

You seem to think that mutual obsession extends beyond football.
I am not sure if we are so obsessed about each other.
I think Matussek is nuts and does not represent public opinion.
I have not read his book, but quite a few reviews, which were all negative. They criticized not just what he wrote about Britain, but everything else in his book. Quite a few critics ridiculed him. And he deserves it. I saw him once or twice in a talkshow. Ridiculous and stupid fellow.

Question: Who else in Germany is obsessed about Britain these days?

Quite a few Germans moved to Britain in recent years, incl. many doctors of medicine, football players and celebrities.
A huge number of German students move to Britain for their Ph.D., or move to teach there after getting a Ph.D.
And then there is the huge number of German tourists in Scotland and Wales, who just love your country.
So many Germans associate Britain with their last holidays: friendly B&B, delicious ccones, beautiful Highlands, tranquil Lake District, magnificient Stone Circles, great musicals in London, kind people, who make hitchhiking so easy (esp. in Scotland) etc rather than the bombing of Dresden and Hamburg or those things.

These tourists do NOT have an accurate understanding or a sophisticated appreciation of Britain, but they like Britain.

And in recent years, the Nordsee fast food chain and others have started selling “Fish and Chips.” Of course, it is terrible. They can’t make a decent Fish and Chips. As you know, real Fish and Chips is wrapped in a newspaper, but these stupid chains sell it in some other form of wrapping that is just printed to look like a newspaper. Utter disgrace. And the fish does not taste like it should taste anyway.
The point, however, is that Britain is “in.” Cool Britannia.

Last but not least, the BBC and The Economist are the most trusted and most appreciated news and opinion sources for many Germans, especially for international affairs.

The BBC World service is available on FM in Berlin (and in other German cities, I believe). My dad used to listen to the German BBC programme every single morning. There were quite big protests, when the BBC announced an end to the BBC News in German programme in the early or mid 90s.
I don’t know how many folks in Germany listen to the BBC and read the Economist these days, but I think there are many. The Economist subscription in Germany is incredibly cheap.

To conclude: I don’t think Germans are “obsessed” with Britain. (Definitely not more obsessed than with the US.) “Obsession” has a negative ring to it.
And if you insist that we are obsessed, then I would like to point out all the positive associations we have re Britain and the British. Matussek is one of the few remaining dinosaurs, I believe.

Who else besides Mattusek has “North Sea neuroses”?

By: Alex

Alex — Mon, 11 Dec 2006 00:34:32 +0000

An Aussie? You shameless turdmonkey, I hope you’re going to take that back. How dare you suggest I’d have a competent cricket team?

No, I just lived there years ago.

By: John Montague

John Montague — Sun, 10 Dec 2006 23:34:09 +0000

Very funny Alex and nicely written too. Are you an Aussie by the way; I’d never heard of a furphy before ?

If only Matussek knew how much British grown-up 68ers used to envy German patriotism. – especially the patriotism of her bankers.