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	<title>Comments on: Book Review: &#8220;European Integration 1950-2003: Superstate or New Market Economy?&#8221;</title>
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	<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/book-review-european-integration-1950-2003-superstate-or-new-market-economy/</link>
	<description>European Opinion</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 19:12:39 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: imran khan</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/book-review-european-integration-1950-2003-superstate-or-new-market-economy/#comment-2435</link>
		<dc:creator>imran khan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 Apr 2004 13:09:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=326#comment-2435</guid>
		<description>i can say some thing about the whole people of the world but just that "the people consumption and desire increasing day by day, and that desire and demand for the people are fullfilling by the Mnc's"  most of the people are becoming the Mnc's consumer.
          kindly request to add this comment.
                            thank's
                         imran khan 
                     
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		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>i can say some thing about the whole people of the world but just that &#8220;the people consumption and desire increasing day by day, and that desire and demand for the people are fullfilling by the Mnc&#8217;s&#8221;  most of the people are becoming the Mnc&#8217;s consumer.<br />
          kindly request to add this comment.<br />
                            thank&#8217;s<br />
                         imran khan</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard Guerrero</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/book-review-european-integration-1950-2003-superstate-or-new-market-economy/#comment-2434</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard Guerrero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2004 05:13:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=326#comment-2434</guid>
		<description>"Bernard, I can't speak for Scott, but I would be very surprised if he regarded the thought of oul' Iosef Vissarionovich being 'correct' about something as a bone to be grateful for."

Ah, no, you misunderstand, Madam.  I'm not implying that _he'd_ agree with the Man of Steel.  I'm saying that in this particular instance, _I_ do.  I suspect that most people do, really.  Very few folks I know actually lose sleep over the plight of sub-Saharan Africa, for instance.  Mostly it seems to be table-talk which has minimal effect on their consumption or free-time.  Poor Pete Singer...

Bernard Guerrero</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Bernard, I can&#8217;t speak for Scott, but I would be very surprised if he regarded the thought of oul&#8217; Iosef Vissarionovich being &#8216;correct&#8217; about something as a bone to be grateful for.&#8221;</p>
<p>Ah, no, you misunderstand, Madam.  I&#8217;m not implying that _he&#8217;d_ agree with the Man of Steel.  I&#8217;m saying that in this particular instance, _I_ do.  I suspect that most people do, really.  Very few folks I know actually lose sleep over the plight of sub-Saharan Africa, for instance.  Mostly it seems to be table-talk which has minimal effect on their consumption or free-time.  Poor Pete Singer&#8230;</p>
<p>Bernard Guerrero</p>
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		<title>By: Mrs Tilton</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/book-review-european-integration-1950-2003-superstate-or-new-market-economy/#comment-2433</link>
		<dc:creator>Mrs Tilton</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2004 04:38:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=326#comment-2433</guid>
		<description>Bernard, I can't speak for Scott, but I would be very surprised if he regarded the thought of oul' Iosef Vissarionovich being 'correct' about something as a bone to be grateful for. You'll have to do better than this.

(And I am not saying this merely to keep Scott from hanging Pinochet round my neck.)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bernard, I can&#8217;t speak for Scott, but I would be very surprised if he regarded the thought of oul&#8217; Iosef Vissarionovich being &#8216;correct&#8217; about something as a bone to be grateful for. You&#8217;ll have to do better than this.</p>
<p>(And I am not saying this merely to keep Scott from hanging Pinochet round my neck.)</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard Guerrero</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/book-review-european-integration-1950-2003-superstate-or-new-market-economy/#comment-2432</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard Guerrero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:38:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=326#comment-2432</guid>
		<description>Scott,

"Or perhaps we should talk about AIDS victims in Africa dying because the failure to enforce American and European patents on anti-viral medications would get what trade they have cut off? They're buried all over the place"

Irrelevant.  There is no moral equivalence between killing citizens you don't like and letting far-away people you don't care about much one way or the other die.  The former is murder, the latter is merely callous.  I am under no imperative to sacrifice resources (which is what allowing the infringement of patent rights of companies that pay taxes to my government and employ my neighbors amounts to) in order to help a series of ciphers.

However, if it helps, I'll toss you a bone.  Stalin was, in terms of what people actually care about, correct.  One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.

Bernard Guerrero</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Scott,</p>
<p>&#8220;Or perhaps we should talk about AIDS victims in Africa dying because the failure to enforce American and European patents on anti-viral medications would get what trade they have cut off? They&#8217;re buried all over the place&#8221;</p>
<p>Irrelevant.  There is no moral equivalence between killing citizens you don&#8217;t like and letting far-away people you don&#8217;t care about much one way or the other die.  The former is murder, the latter is merely callous.  I am under no imperative to sacrifice resources (which is what allowing the infringement of patent rights of companies that pay taxes to my government and employ my neighbors amounts to) in order to help a series of ciphers.</p>
<p>However, if it helps, I&#8217;ll toss you a bone.  Stalin was, in terms of what people actually care about, correct.  One death is a tragedy, a million is a statistic.</p>
<p>Bernard Guerrero</p>
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		<title>By: Bernard Guerrero</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/book-review-european-integration-1950-2003-superstate-or-new-market-economy/#comment-2431</link>
		<dc:creator>Bernard Guerrero</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2004 03:31:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=326#comment-2431</guid>
		<description>"However, one thing I do remember quite clearly is how deregulation in each of those areas drastically reduced the quality of service. Airlines service was a mess for years, especially after the acrimonious end to the PATCO strike and the constant din of bankruptcies. Telephone service under the "Baby Bells" and the new long distance providers was somewhat cheaper - eventually - but reliability did not return to 1980 levels for a decade, and most of us who were teens in that era mostly remember cheap phones with bad sound that broke a lot. Trucking moved from a stable source of employment for many underskilled people to an industry that pays minimal wages, offers no benefits, and has a major stimulant abuse problem. And as for banking, it is still difficult to determine if there were any gains at all when the costs of the S&#038;L scandal are taken into account."

Scott, you almost seem to be describing a different planet from the one I grew up in.  Having grown up in New Jersey in the 80s and early 90s (and having worked as a Teamster while in college), I saw no real decline or disruption in telephone service, loads of folks making a nice living as truckers and a huge increase in the flexibility and services offered by banks (no doubt largely due to the ubiqitous ATM, but that wouldn't be here in the same numbers in a strongly regulated labor environment.)

As to bankrupt airlines, good riddance to bad rubbish.  Uneconomic capital-sinks prior to the advent of non-hub&#038;spoke carriers like SouthWest.

I simply can't agree with anything you're saying here.

Bernard Guerrero</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;However, one thing I do remember quite clearly is how deregulation in each of those areas drastically reduced the quality of service. Airlines service was a mess for years, especially after the acrimonious end to the PATCO strike and the constant din of bankruptcies. Telephone service under the &#8220;Baby Bells&#8221; and the new long distance providers was somewhat cheaper - eventually - but reliability did not return to 1980 levels for a decade, and most of us who were teens in that era mostly remember cheap phones with bad sound that broke a lot. Trucking moved from a stable source of employment for many underskilled people to an industry that pays minimal wages, offers no benefits, and has a major stimulant abuse problem. And as for banking, it is still difficult to determine if there were any gains at all when the costs of the S&#038;L scandal are taken into account.&#8221;</p>
<p>Scott, you almost seem to be describing a different planet from the one I grew up in.  Having grown up in New Jersey in the 80s and early 90s (and having worked as a Teamster while in college), I saw no real decline or disruption in telephone service, loads of folks making a nice living as truckers and a huge increase in the flexibility and services offered by banks (no doubt largely due to the ubiqitous ATM, but that wouldn&#8217;t be here in the same numbers in a strongly regulated labor environment.)</p>
<p>As to bankrupt airlines, good riddance to bad rubbish.  Uneconomic capital-sinks prior to the advent of non-hub&#038;spoke carriers like SouthWest.</p>
<p>I simply can&#8217;t agree with anything you&#8217;re saying here.</p>
<p>Bernard Guerrero</p>
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		<title>By: Brad DeLong</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/book-review-european-integration-1950-2003-superstate-or-new-market-economy/#comment-2430</link>
		<dc:creator>Brad DeLong</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 07 Feb 2004 00:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=326#comment-2430</guid>
		<description>Gee. I guess I should turn down my invitation to review _European Integration_ for the _Journal of Economic Literature_, shouldn't I?

:-)

And do move _Seeing Like a State_ to the top of your to-read list...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gee. I guess I should turn down my invitation to review _European Integration_ for the _Journal of Economic Literature_, shouldn&#8217;t I?<br />
 <img src='http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
And do move _Seeing Like a State_ to the top of your to-read list&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/book-review-european-integration-1950-2003-superstate-or-new-market-economy/#comment-2429</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2004 18:06:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=326#comment-2429</guid>
		<description>"Edward - well, I'm not per se against free trade. But, I do think that trade barriers have aided in the development of some previously underdeveloped states."

And I'm not an ideologue. So I can agree that there may be circumstances, and that circumstances alter cases. However in general I go with free trade. I think countries like India were the big losers of the old protectionism.

"And, I think that the problems posed by multinationals able to shop for the least restrictive regulatory scheme and the risks of capital flight are real."

I think this calls for a post on the future of MNC's in the not too distant future. For now I'll just mention: remember everything that lives was born to die.

"I eat Dutch cheese, listen to French music, work on an American computer and used to drive a Korean car."

Well let's just move all that a whole lot to the east and even more to  the South and you'll be doing just fine.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Edward - well, I&#8217;m not per se against free trade. But, I do think that trade barriers have aided in the development of some previously underdeveloped states.&#8221;</p>
<p>And I&#8217;m not an ideologue. So I can agree that there may be circumstances, and that circumstances alter cases. However in general I go with free trade. I think countries like India were the big losers of the old protectionism.</p>
<p>&#8220;And, I think that the problems posed by multinationals able to shop for the least restrictive regulatory scheme and the risks of capital flight are real.&#8221;</p>
<p>I think this calls for a post on the future of MNC&#8217;s in the not too distant future. For now I&#8217;ll just mention: remember everything that lives was born to die.</p>
<p>&#8220;I eat Dutch cheese, listen to French music, work on an American computer and used to drive a Korean car.&#8221;</p>
<p>Well let&#8217;s just move all that a whole lot to the east and even more to  the South and you&#8217;ll be doing just fine.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Martens</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/book-review-european-integration-1950-2003-superstate-or-new-market-economy/#comment-2428</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2004 15:12:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=326#comment-2428</guid>
		<description>Pedro - I'm certainly not an uncritical Hayekite.  I don't want to dismiss grand projects either, although I might argue that there never really was a "high modernism."  Even grand projects have context - they don't happen in a vaccuum.  I do want people to learn from the failures of past social engineering, and I think Hayek has some genuine insight to offer there, but I want them to do this so that that can do successful social engineering.  

There is a growing focus on understanding the successful grand projects of the past, in part because it is often a mystery why things that worked once often don't work twice.  I see a lot of books bringing new focuses to the industrial revolution and the development of the US and Japanese economies rather than focusing solely on why is the path to development that seems so obvious to people is failing elsewhere.

As for computational linguistics - I'm having some normalisation issues myself, especially in *$#%ing German, where they capitalise every frigging noun!  But, I do have this incredibly cool algorithm for terminology extraction using algorithmic information theory and a perceptron.  It has some drawbacks, but it is *so* fast.  I have a more generalised version of the algorithm in mind that has some impact on theories of language acquistion, but it involves doing some new math that I haven't time to get into.

I can't talk about the specifics of commercial research on Pedantry, but there will be a post going up this weekend (I hope) on contact lingustics in the Congo Basin.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pedro - I&#8217;m certainly not an uncritical Hayekite.  I don&#8217;t want to dismiss grand projects either, although I might argue that there never really was a &#8220;high modernism.&#8221;  Even grand projects have context - they don&#8217;t happen in a vaccuum.  I do want people to learn from the failures of past social engineering, and I think Hayek has some genuine insight to offer there, but I want them to do this so that that can do successful social engineering.  </p>
<p>There is a growing focus on understanding the successful grand projects of the past, in part because it is often a mystery why things that worked once often don&#8217;t work twice.  I see a lot of books bringing new focuses to the industrial revolution and the development of the US and Japanese economies rather than focusing solely on why is the path to development that seems so obvious to people is failing elsewhere.</p>
<p>As for computational linguistics - I&#8217;m having some normalisation issues myself, especially in *$#%ing German, where they capitalise every frigging noun!  But, I do have this incredibly cool algorithm for terminology extraction using algorithmic information theory and a perceptron.  It has some drawbacks, but it is *so* fast.  I have a more generalised version of the algorithm in mind that has some impact on theories of language acquistion, but it involves doing some new math that I haven&#8217;t time to get into.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t talk about the specifics of commercial research on Pedantry, but there will be a post going up this weekend (I hope) on contact lingustics in the Congo Basin.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Martens</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/book-review-european-integration-1950-2003-superstate-or-new-market-economy/#comment-2427</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Martens</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2004 14:41:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=326#comment-2427</guid>
		<description>"a bunch of people living on the east end of the Eurasian continent"

I note with some embarassment that I meant to say "a bunch of people living on the west end of the Eurasian continent."  This may explain some of the confusion.  That goes beyond a typo - since I must have read that sentence at least three times and seen the word "west" every time.  That was a brain fart.

Edward - well, I'm not per se against free trade.  But, I do think that trade barriers have aided in the development of some previously underdeveloped states.  And, I think that the problems posed by multinationals able to shop for the least restrictive regulatory scheme and the risks of capital flight are real.  I also have some real problems with the trade agendas being advanced by the US and the EU.  But, all that is more a call for an effective international economic governance than an opposition to free trade on principle.  I eat Dutch cheese, listen to French music, work on an American computer and used to drive a Korean car.  I don't see any special reason to make those things hard to have.

I just haven't got any enthusiasm for localist alternatives to globalisation.

I suppose I might give you a bad name by agreeing with you, but what I've proposed - which strikes me as policies well within the ideological reach of any European liberal party - is radical leftism in the US. So, my "street cred", such as it is, is pretty intact. :^)

As for structural reforms in the labour market - I'm sort of saying that if the state is able to offer decent income support outside the market, I am less bothered when competition with the developing world lowers wages.  If moving jobs overseas really does raise profits and increases productivity - which is something of a dogma for the free-market evangelists - then taxable income ought to increase enough to compensate for the losses.  If moving jobs to India makes some people richer and some people poorer, it only makes sense if we can tax the people getting richer and give the money to the ones getting poorer.

I can't find a decent reason to not want good jobs to go to India.  Indians certainly appreciate them.  But I do think that this shouldn't be leaving people worse off in the US and UK.  The same logic ultimately applies to the immigrant worker.  If Mexicans are willing to move to California to pick strawberries at minimum wages, because it really is good money for them, then this ought to be producing profits for somebody who ought, in turn, to be compensating the people losing agricultural jobs because of it.  That seems to me to be in line with your post here.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;a bunch of people living on the east end of the Eurasian continent&#8221;</p>
<p>I note with some embarassment that I meant to say &#8220;a bunch of people living on the west end of the Eurasian continent.&#8221;  This may explain some of the confusion.  That goes beyond a typo - since I must have read that sentence at least three times and seen the word &#8220;west&#8221; every time.  That was a brain fart.</p>
<p>Edward - well, I&#8217;m not per se against free trade.  But, I do think that trade barriers have aided in the development of some previously underdeveloped states.  And, I think that the problems posed by multinationals able to shop for the least restrictive regulatory scheme and the risks of capital flight are real.  I also have some real problems with the trade agendas being advanced by the US and the EU.  But, all that is more a call for an effective international economic governance than an opposition to free trade on principle.  I eat Dutch cheese, listen to French music, work on an American computer and used to drive a Korean car.  I don&#8217;t see any special reason to make those things hard to have.</p>
<p>I just haven&#8217;t got any enthusiasm for localist alternatives to globalisation.</p>
<p>I suppose I might give you a bad name by agreeing with you, but what I&#8217;ve proposed - which strikes me as policies well within the ideological reach of any European liberal party - is radical leftism in the US. So, my &#8220;street cred&#8221;, such as it is, is pretty intact. :^)</p>
<p>As for structural reforms in the labour market - I&#8217;m sort of saying that if the state is able to offer decent income support outside the market, I am less bothered when competition with the developing world lowers wages.  If moving jobs overseas really does raise profits and increases productivity - which is something of a dogma for the free-market evangelists - then taxable income ought to increase enough to compensate for the losses.  If moving jobs to India makes some people richer and some people poorer, it only makes sense if we can tax the people getting richer and give the money to the ones getting poorer.</p>
<p>I can&#8217;t find a decent reason to not want good jobs to go to India.  Indians certainly appreciate them.  But I do think that this shouldn&#8217;t be leaving people worse off in the US and UK.  The same logic ultimately applies to the immigrant worker.  If Mexicans are willing to move to California to pick strawberries at minimum wages, because it really is good money for them, then this ought to be producing profits for somebody who ought, in turn, to be compensating the people losing agricultural jobs because of it.  That seems to me to be in line with your post here.</p>
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		<title>By: Edward</title>
		<link>http://fistfulofeuros.net/afoe/culture/book-review-european-integration-1950-2003-superstate-or-new-market-economy/#comment-2426</link>
		<dc:creator>Edward</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2004 12:41:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://fistfulofeuros.net/wordpress/?p=326#comment-2426</guid>
		<description>"Might there be an AFOE rumble in the near future?"

Sorry to come back on this side issue, but I think it is worth emphasising that one of the virtues of blogging is that this doesn't necessarily have to happen.

I would say that the great thing about blogging is that it provides the possibility of having a cross section of reasoned views expressed without leaving blood on the pavement.

Definitely a contribution to a healthy civil society and to civic discourse: and normally Fistful comments are a model in this regard.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Might there be an AFOE rumble in the near future?&#8221;</p>
<p>Sorry to come back on this side issue, but I think it is worth emphasising that one of the virtues of blogging is that this doesn&#8217;t necessarily have to happen.</p>
<p>I would say that the great thing about blogging is that it provides the possibility of having a cross section of reasoned views expressed without leaving blood on the pavement.</p>
<p>Definitely a contribution to a healthy civil society and to civic discourse: and normally Fistful comments are a model in this regard.</p>
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